Hefeweizen

[Gold]

Hi all,

Just culturing some yeast from a bottle of lovely lovely Schneider Weisse and was wondering if there was any feedback on this recipe:

16L

62% 2kg Wheat Malt
31% 1kg British Lager Two-row
8% 0.250kg Muntons Caramalt
Tempted to go the whole hog and try a decotion mash (for the first time) as described in this article - http://www.homebrewtalk.com/f36/brewing ... ndex2.html

NZ Pacific Jade to 15IBU

I know that the hops are not exactly traditional but have Pacific Jade in the freezer and with low cohumulone tends to give a nice smooth bitterness. Also tempted (inspired by the Schneider/Brooklyn Hopfen Weisse) to split the batches post-fermentation and dry hop half with Citra.

Cheers

[Morten]

Go for it.

I just kegged a weizen that has been dryhopped with citra, do not know the result yet though (but should do within the next couple of hours)

[jmc]

Good luck with your brew I'm sure it will be lovely. Great yeast.

Temp control critical to flavours produced. Coolish (18C) for clove, warmer (21-22) for Banana

I like to add flaked wheat and some flaked oats to add lots of body
I use a stepped mash 40 - 50 - 62 - 68.
The 40c step reduces glucans which reduces potential problem of a stuck mask

Recipe for recent brew below:
Toddy Weiss #6
Gyle Number: 73

Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Bohemian Pilsner Malt 2.5 EBC 4 lbs. 6.5 oz 2000 grams 33.9%
Wheat Malt 3.5 EBC 3 lbs. 4.9 oz 1500 grams 25.4%
Flaked Wheat 0 EBC 3 lbs. 3.1 oz 1450 grams 24.6%
Oat Flakes 2.5 EBC 1 lbs. 1.6 oz 500 grams 8.5%
Cara Munich 120 120 EBC 0 lbs. 8.8 oz 250 grams 4.2%
Carabelge 300 EBC 0 lbs. 3.5 oz 100 grams 1.7%
Acid Malt 2.5 EBC 0 lbs. 3.5 oz 100 grams 1.7%

Hop Variety Type Alpha Time lb: oz grams Ratio
Tettnang Whole 5 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 1.1 oz 30 grams 100%

Final Volume: 23 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.056
Final Gravity: 1.013
Alcohol Content: 5.6% ABV
Mash Efficiency: 75 %
Bitterness: 15.3 EBU

[wilsoa11111]

gd, luck if u do a decoction, i have done it twice now, first time much more successful than recent as recently tried to follow beersmiths plan- dont, u want a stanard mash volume so u can add plenty of boiling water to sparge with to reduce a stuck sparge and increase efficency- recently took a long time and only got 60% , so beers only 4%

also decoctions benefits are debated and adding some extra colur and malty grains, like all munich not pale or some aromatic malt would do a similar job... also wheat yeasts seem to smell a bit sour aswell normally

[Kev888]

I originally made a similar recipe numerous times with single temperature mashes and bog standard fermentations and it was very nice, especially as a refreshing summer drink. But since starting to do a few additional things - mostly inspired by leedsbrew and aleman - it has become more authentic (rather than necessarily 'better').

One is the ferulic acid rest at around 43c for half an hour. Personally I do mine by two infusions, which is to say do a 'very' stiff mash at 43c then add hotter liquor calculated to bring it up to mash temperature. Though usually I end up wandering around with saucepans or cold water to fine tune it and you do need to work it out carefully beforehand to ensure you can add enough liquor at the right temperature without overflowing, which is why the first rest has to be very stiff to leave lots of room to add the warmer liquor. Decoction is another way to do it that uses a more constant volume- you remove some of the mash, boil it and return it to raise the temperature; its therefore possible to do as many steps as you like without worrying about the volume getting out of hand, though I believe there is some denaturing of the enzymes.

Hefes are very much about the yeast and ferulic acid works in conjunction with a proper hefe yeast (at least it seems to with WLP300) to give the traditional esters etc. Similarly as JMC said, the fermentation temperatures are important, leaning it towards clove or banana especially the early stages of fermentation; people often pitch when the wort is cooler than normal then gradually raise it. Also, under-pitching makes a difference too - I believe it again stresses the yeast and helps create character (I use around 25% of what I'd use for a traditional ale yeast).

Cheers
Kev

[Jocky]

I recommend loading all the hops in the last 20 mins. The high level of cohumulone in Pacific Gem will add a harshness to the bitterness if you boil it for an hour.

Also my recent hefeweizen was fermented at 23 degrees and I didn't get much in the way of banana flavour from the WB06 yeast.

[jmc]

... Personally I do mine by two infusions, which is to say do a 'very' stiff mash at 43c then add hotter liquor calculated to bring it up to mash temperature. Though usually I end up wandering around with saucepans or cold water to fine tune it and you do need to work it out carefully beforehand to ensure you can add enough liquor at the right temperature without overflowing, which is why the first rest has to be very stiff to leave lots of room to add the warmer liquor.....
Cheers
Kev

+1 to starting with a very stiff mix and careful calculations

I need to start with a stiff mix (1:2) otherwise I run out of capacity.
It becomes harder and harder to raise temp by hot water additions as you have to heat up an increasing amount of mash.
Brewzor app is great but it may tell you to add 110C water but unfortunately max temp of water addition is about 98C.
With my LIDL MT/Boiler I can only raise to 62C with infusion.

These are the calc I used from Brewzor app to calculate infusion additions in recent brew


Luckily I can use the LIDL boiler to heat from 62 to 69 and 69 to 76 (Mash Out)
But you need to stir while raising temp to prevent scorching.

Pic of recirculation at 40C


Lidl MT/Boiler

[Kev888]

Thats very detailed - good post! I suspect you're more patient/accurate than me; I'm pretty self satisfied if I manage the one step well

In case its of any use for general info: my MT is a bit undersized for the brew-lengths, so for a strong-ish hefe I've had to go down to 1L/kg for the ferulic acid rest... Obviously thats not ideal and takes a long while to mix in evenly, but it does seem 'just about' enough to get the grain sodden if not actually suspended, and seems to work. I wouldn't recommend such a poor ratio but perhaps its some sort of guide as to whats possible.

IIRC You could probably do the ferulic acid rest with just the wheat and then add everything else later, but thats getting a bit tedious/complex for me..

Cheers
Kev

[far9410]

Great post guys, this gives us lesser mortals a feel for this, when i do my mash tun upgrade i'm gonna try some of this

[Gold]

Thanks a lot for all the great responses - plenty to be going through!

[greenxpaddy]

It must be well over a year since I did my triple decoction mash. 13 hr monster brewday that one.

A bit like having a baby I reckon. You need to have forgotten how bad it was before you consider doing it again!

I wouldn't brew a weizen without step mashing though, which is why I haven't done one for ages. But I'm nearly at that point again.

[Lugsy]

+1 for the multi-step mash.

I double decoct my Weizens as I think you get a better mouthfeel with them, along with the flavour and efficiency benefits. Here's my schedule:

Start with 2l/kg at 43C for the ferulic rest. After 15 minutes take a thick 30% of the mash and raise it to 53C for 15 minutes, then up to around 70C for 30 minutes, then up to boiling for 10-20 minutes (depending on beer colour - 10 minutes for Hefeweizens, 20 or more for Dunkleweizens)

Add this portion back to the main mash to get to 53C, rest here for 30 minutes and then infuse with boiling water to 64C for an hour, then draw another 30% (thinner this time) and boil it before adding back enough of this to get to 72C. Leave the mash here until conversion is complete and then add boiling water to get to 75C or so for mash out. Run off and sparge as usual. I used to have real problems with the run-off with high wheat percentages but I've just discovered oat husks - I add about 300g to the mash after the final decoction now and I have no problems at all with stuck mashes.

I tend to get a mash efficiency of close to 90% with this method although that alone certainly isn't worth the effort - a typical Weizen brewday easily takes 10 hours, sometimes 12, but for me the flavour and mouthfeel of the final beer is worth the effort and can't be produced without the decoctions.

As mentioned earlier, temperature control for the fermentation is essential to get the flavour profile with WLP300. I pitch a small (500ml) starter at 13C then raise it to 17/18C for the first few days and raise it to 20C or so for the finish. WLP300 can be a bit funny sometimes though and sticks a few points high. If this happens I've found out that racking to secondary can kick start it again, possible the introduction of a little oxygen through racking fires it up again. Before I learned this I made the mistake of bottling one at 1.016 when it refused to drop any lower, I primed as usual to about 3 volumes but bottling it kick-started the yeast again. The bottles had to be cooled to about 5C for serving or they tried to redecorate the ceiling on opening - luckily I'd used really strong bottles but I was always a bit worried about transporting them when they were warm!

Good luck with the brew and keep us posted with it

[Gold]

Ferulic rest:


First runnings:


Most important part of the day:


Hit gravity at 1.049 but only collected 14.5L


Bubbling away nicely.