CASTLE MALTING: BELGIAN STYLE IPA

[AdyG]

Would it be possible to achieve a good Belgian IPA without the 4 degree lagering? I haven't got a brew fridge yet for holding the fv at a steady cool temperature.

I tried a 'Houblon Chouffe Dobbelen IPA Tripel' the other day and really liked it and wanted to do a similar strong IPA with that unmistakable Belgian flavour.

[weiht]

Shit, i think i opened a can of worms..

Well firstly, I wasn't pointing any fingers at Seymour. I was just thinking aloud after reading some of the "belgian" threads that probably Castle is trying to mislead us in a capitalistic way. This recipe was the final straw for me after reading them, because what is so belgiany about it?? Except probably using Castle malts? I can't see the beer being belgiany in any way possible.

Seymour, I think sometimes your enthusiasm gets misunderstood as flooding the forum with ur recipes because it is "SO GOOD", and you know you yanks have a way of getting your point across as the "gospel truth". Most good intentions are often misunderstood

Besides, recipes are a little overrated.. Try brewing something simple and making it nice

[seymour]

...Seymour, I think sometimes your enthusiasm gets misunderstood...

Okay, I'll take that all into consideration. I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll give it some thought. I simply posted these recipes for informative and comparative purposes. I know some people have recipe databases of their own. These recipes were a little tricky to find, so I thought I'd share them with the group. I don't have any vested interest, good, bad or indifferent.

I do love getting a conversation going about brewing, and this one definitely has. As for this recipe, I agree with you, which ought to be clear. It doesn't even call for Belgian yeast. Weird, huh?

In the meantime, as with anything else, if someone has no interest in the topic, simply do not click it.

[weiht]

My statement on ur enthusiasm is not pertaining to this thread, but in general. Well, u cant make everyone like u..

i was just pissed how misrepresented those recipes are, and clearly castle didnt put much thought or care into formulating it or making it belgian inspired.

[Matt12398]

When I read this thread it makes me think back to the India porter thread. Seymour hadn't brewed it but it sparked a bit interest in him and he wanted to share it. This drew attention to a long forgotten style and also led to people trying it out and some positive reports. I can only see that as a good thing.

I've tried a couple of Seymour's recipes and they've been good. I agree tried and tested always beats speculative information but it all helps further the cause. It was Seymour's information on a Founders beer that has led to me researching and putting together my own clone recipe which I look forward to trying out next an sharing my tried and tested recipe.

Keep it up Seymour. I like reading your posts.

[AdyG]

When I read this thread it makes me think back to the India porter thread. Seymour hadn't brewed it but it sparked a bit interest in him and he wanted to share it. This drew attention to a long forgotten style and also led to people trying it out and some positive reports. I can only see that as a good thing.

I've tried a couple of Seymour's recipes and they've been good. I agree tried and tested always beats speculative information but it all helps further the cause. It was Seymour's information on a Founders beer that has led to me researching and putting together my own clone recipe which I look forward to trying out next an sharing my tried and tested recipe.

Keep it up Seymour. I like reading your posts.

+1 ... For a beginner like me (not even been all grain brewing a year yet), more knowledgeable brewers like Seymour have given me some great advice that's helped me to produce some excellent beer!

[seymour]

...more knowledgeable brewers like Seymour have given me some great advice that's helped me to produce some excellent beer!

Thanks for the kinds words, AdyG. I'm glad to hear about your brewing successes.

Would it be possible to achieve a good Belgian IPA without the 4 degree lagering? I haven't got a brew fridge yet for holding the fv at a steady cool temperature.

Yes, definitely. India Pale ALE is an ale, obviously (as opposed to lager), so temperature control is not essential. I like that these recipes give such specific temperature instructions, and perhaps they should be viewed as "best practice" for most consistent quality, but don't stress-out. Are we pretending the 19th century brewers who created this style had elaborate temperature controlled fermentation?

I tried a 'Houblon Chouffe Dobbelen IPA Tripel' the other day and really liked it and wanted to do a similar strong IPA with that unmistakable Belgian flavour.

This is an important point. As weiht and I discussed, this particular recipe isn't exactly "Belgian", it's just a basic aromatic IPA recipe. To produce something like you described, you'll definitely need to use a Belgian yeast (T-58 is a good dry option) in which case cold temperature fermentation is even less necessary. Just pitch your Belgian yeast and let it rip at ambient temperatures for lots of fruity esters and spicy phenols. If you have a way to lower the temperature in secondary fermentation/conditioning, that can be beneficial but not required...

Good luck!

[6470zzy]

With them saying used in small amounts I'm personally going to place it below chocolate malt but not as intense maybe? Still don't want more than 5 per cent in your bill tho I'm guessing?

Sounds reasonable to me. That's an accurate description of English Brown Malt, too, right?
However, in big-bodied dark ales such as a Robust Porter, you can use quite a bit of Brown Malt. It all depends on what you're going for. I suspect it's just for some extra grain complexity in this IPA recipe, a little extra malt sweetness to balance the hoppy bitterness...

The Abbey Malt is quite bitter itself, so it will not do anything in the way of adding sweetness to balance out hop bitterness. If you want sweetness then you need to go for a crystal malt.


Cheers

[seymour]

...The Abbey Malt is quite bitter itself, so it will not do anything in the way of adding sweetness to balance out hop bitterness. If you want sweetness then you need to go for a crystal malt...

Good to know, I stand corrected. I assumed it shared some characteristics with other toasted/aromatic/brown-ish type malts I've used which, although they do possess some grain bitterness, they also lend a lot of malty melanoidins which aren't easily fermented, thus leaving-behind some residual sweetness.

For instance, Victory Malt is 28º Lovibond (versus Abbey Malt at only 17.4º Lovibond), and is bready, toasty, biscuity, nutty, but not particularly bitter. I wonder what makes Abbey Malt so bitter?

So, how would you answer sbond10's original question about Abbey Malt's purpose in this recipe, "what quality does it bring to a beer?"

[6470zzy]

I believe that I did answer that, it brings a grain bitterness and not sweetness.

Cheers

[6470zzy]

Shit, i think i opened a can of worms..

Well firstly, I wasn't pointing any fingers at Seymour. I was just thinking aloud after reading some of the "belgian" threads that probably Castle is trying to mislead us in a capitalistic way. This recipe was the final straw for me after reading them, because what is so belgiany about it?? Except probably using Castle malts? I can't see the beer being belgiany in any way possible.

Seymour, I think sometimes your enthusiasm gets misunderstood as flooding the forum with ur recipes because it is "SO GOOD", and you know you yanks have a way of getting your point across as the "gospel truth". Most good intentions are often misunderstood

Besides, recipes are a little overrated.. Try brewing something simple and making it nice

I have to tend to agree with you and Seymour regarding the recipe (speaking of this recipe) I think that the only Belgian aspect here is the Castle Abbey malt. Not uncommon really its simply the company pushing its product, unfortunately in this instance without much imagination on their behalf. I am sure that the beer would turn out just fine in any regards, so thanks for sharing it

Cheers

[chumley]

I just bought a sack of this abbey malt for $20. Trying to google a recipe, all I end up is this thread with you bickering posers.

Did anyone ever brew with stuff and has an actual report?

[seymour]

I just bought a sack of this abbey malt for $20. Trying to google a recipe, all I end up is this thread with you bickering posers. Did anyone ever brew with stuff and has an actual report?

Wow! Welcome to the forum. Since you asked so nicely...

The commercial beer I most enjoyed which contains Abbey Malt is Blue Moon Farmhouse Red. I know, I know, but it's surprisingly tasty.

Blue Moon Farmhouse Red
MolsonCoors/Blue Moon, Golden, Colorado, USA
hybrid style: Flanders Red/Saison
OG: 1059
ABV: 5.4%
Grainbill: Pale, Abbey Malt, Enzymic/Aciduated Malt, Chocolate Malt, White Wheat Malt
Hops: Spalt Select, Saaz
Spices: White Pepper, Coriander, Hibiscus
IBU: 15
Colour: hazy reddish amber
Yeast: proprietary Coors strain, a neutral, hazy ale strain similar to Chico

I still haven't personally brewed with Castle Abbey Malt, but it seems mostly interchangeable with English Brown Malt, perhaps producing a bit more Belgian aromatics. Two of my recent brews contained Brown Malt and had the predicted bready complexity: Seymour Dark Mild No.3 contains 8.5% and Seymour American Stout contains 2.8%.

I think the main point is that you could substitute it in any recipe calling for Brown Malt, or perhaps even Dark Crystal Malt or Pale Chocolate Malt to a certain extent (adjusting your grainbill percentage to compensate for the varying depth of colour and toastiness, obviously.) You certainly have enough to experiment with there. Please circle-back and share your own results.

[far9410]

Hey Seymour, keep on with the recipes, much appreciated even tho I always make up my own, point of reference etc

[seymour]

Hey Seymour, keep on with the recipes...

Will do, don't worry.

...much appreciated even tho I always make up my own, point of reference etc

Exactly. That's the whole idea, right? Gather lots of information about what works and what doesn't, so you can make up your own mind about things...