Odell brewery malt help!

[simmyb]

Hi All,

I have recently had several of Odells bottled beers and there is a distinct malt flavour across all of the different recipes which i think is delicious! What is the malt they use to get this flavour? I tend to use the usual MO pale malt, crystal, choc, roasted barley etc in general and have used biscuit and amber in a recent beer but there is a definite caramelly ‘rich’ maltyness that I would love to use that doesn’t seem to be evident in any of those malts... Any ideas gratefully received!!

Cheers, Simon

[Belter]

Afaik they mash high and get a lot of unfermentables. Gordon Strong from Stone says keep it simple. Two Row base, crystal and sometimes a bit of roasted barley for colour. I found Odell's ipa to have the same malty flavour as Stone Levitation and Goose island ipa. I think a lot of it is choice of hop also. The recipes I've seen for those beers often have chinook for bittering and then cascade and centennial. Sometimes Amarillo. The grapefruit flavours compliment the sweet malt. That's what I'm going for anyway in my next brew.

[bob3000]

I'm 90% sure the taste you are looking for is aged, oxidated beer. It leaves a caramely sweetness and I have tasted it in many american beers, especially ones that have been sittting at the back of a pubs fridge for a while.

The american podacast I listen to talks about the same thing in english beers, and Americans trying to replicate that "english malt flavour". Obviously, american malt is different and maybe a good sub for american 2-row would be lager malt. i don't think you will be able to get hold of american crystal ect.

[leedsbrew]

The lads a Roosters Brewery in Knaresborough did a collaboration with Doug from Odell. You could drop them an email and see if they have any pointers! Very nice chaps they are too, members of our Leeds HB club and around top blokes.

[T1mjv]

Caragold /caramalt maybe??

[T1mjv]

Caragold /caramalt maybe??

[mysterio]

I think it's oxidation too. Gives a distinct caramel twang. The majority of US imports to the UK have it (some notable exceptions, I've rarely if ever had it in SNPA). All it takes is a couple of months on a warm shelf.

[simmyb]

Thanks for your responses, certainly not the explanation I had expected! So this is a result of neglecting your bottled beer? I wouldn’t have described it as being an ‘off’ flavour at all... Looks like i’m going to have to get slapdash.....

Cheers, Simon

[Belter]

Weird. I'm surprised at that. Makes sense with SNPA as they make every effort to remove oxygen from their beer. Surprise stone don't do the same. Definitely not an off flavour. If I could get it in my IPA's I'd bottle it and sell it. Hmmmm

[simmyb]

A quick update on this.

I have just had the last few bottles of a batch I bottled about 7 months ago and it had started to develop the caramelly flavour that I had originally asked about, confirming that what I was tasting was a flavour that develops in aged beer.

After getting the replies on the post, I started to pick the flavour up in all sorts of beers and to a greater and lesser extent in different bottles of the same bought beer. Now that I have had it develop in one of my own beers that definitely didn’t have it to begin with, I can see that bob and mysterio were spot on!

[seymour]

I have recently had several of Odells bottled beers and there is a distinct malt flavour across all of the different recipes which i think is delicious! What is the malt they use to get this flavour?...

Which particular Odell beers are you thinking of? They vary their grainbills a lot between brands.

For instance:
Odell & Thornbridge Pond Hopper Double Extra Pale Ale collaboration brew: 100% Golden Promise Pilsener Malt
Camden/Odell Baltic Porter collaboration brew: Pilsener Malt, Munich Malt, CaraMalt, Amber Malt, Chocolate Malt, Black Malt
Odell IPA: 84% Two-Row Pale, 8% UK CaraMalt, 7% Vienna Malt, 1% Honey Malt
Odell Isolation Ale Winter Warmer: Two-Row Pale, UK CaraMalt, US Crystal

[BitterTed]

I'm 90% sure the taste you are looking for is aged, oxidated beer. It leaves a caramely sweetness and I have tasted it in many american beers, especially ones that have been sittting at the back of a pubs fridge for a while.

The american podacast I listen to talks about the same thing in english beers, and Americans trying to replicate that "english malt flavour". Obviously, american malt is different and maybe a good sub for american 2-row would be lager malt. i don't think you will be able to get hold of american crystal ect.

Yup, oxidized beer is what you are picking up. I notice this flavor in Brit beers here in the States, it simply can't be helped in my opinion. Shipping across the pond, sitting on docks, sitting in warehouses then finally making it to the stores or pubs isn't good for any beer.
Unlike many brewers, Doug will respond to your email if you send him one at the brewery. I asked a few years ago for help with a clone of 90 schilling and he basically gave me a recipe for it.
Last, as far as I know Gordon Strong has nothing to do with Stone, he is with the American Homebrewers Association.

[seymour]

...Last, as far as I know Gordon Strong has nothing to do with Stone, he is with the American Homebrewers Association.

Right. He was probably thinking of Mitch Steele, a similar-sounding corn-fed American comic book hero name, right?

[simmyb]

I have recently had several of Odells bottled beers and there is a distinct malt flavour across all of the different recipes which i think is delicious! What is the malt they use to get this flavour?...

Which particular Odell beers are you thinking of? They vary their grainbills a lot between brands.

For instance:
Odell & Thornbridge Pond Hopper Double Extra Pale Ale collaboration brew: 100% Golden Promise Pilsener Malt
Camden/Odell Baltic Porter collaboration brew: Pilsener Malt, Munich Malt, CaraMalt, Amber Malt, Chocolate Malt, Black Malt
Odell IPA: 84% Two-Row Pale, 8% UK CaraMalt, 7% Vienna Malt, 1% Honey Malt
Odell Isolation Ale Winter Warmer: Two-Row Pale, UK CaraMalt, US Crystal

Hi Seymour,

The Odell’s beers I have had are the 90 Shilling, IPA, St Lupulin, 5 Barrel Pale Ale and the Cutthroat Porter. I have enjoyed all of them and still do regularly, but I do wonder what a fresh bottle or draught beer would be like as it would seem that the examples I have had have been affected by the caramelly flavour from aging as discussed above, although I have to say I did not dislike this flavour! Indeed in my original post from last year I thought the flavour was from a particular malt and wanted to know what it was so that I could get an element of it into my beers! But now having this flavour develop in one of my beers that did not have it when fresh, along with tasting it in one bottle of a particular brand of beer but not in another, has convinced me that it was just down to aging.

Cheers, Simon