Seymour Tiny Hop Trial & Yeast Starter Project

[Bierhaus]

Funny to see a post about the Gales Old Ale yeast here, as I basically did the same thing back in February and harvested the yeast from two old "prize" bottles and grew it up to pitching quantities. A few things though; the first bottle I got the yeast from was quite old and had no date anywhere on the bottle, which from what I have been told (true or not), bottles without dating are pre-2000's. The second bottle was from 2003. Both bottles were in pretty good shape and the beer tasted similar... tart, balsamic-y, cherry, leather, ect. Oxidized, but quite nice.

Anyways, thinking that I could isolate some brett and other goodies from the Old Prize dregs, I harvested the yeast from both bottles and re-propagated them in the lab where I work. It took just over a week for both yeasts to show active signs of fermentation and with the help of our microbiologist, we grew the yeast from 5ml of slurry to over 100ml each. Both yeasts were then pitched into 2000ml starters of lightly hopped, mid gravity wort and fermented out. The resulting beer from each step was analyzed for bacteria and wild yeast; both yeast samples were grown on selective yeast/bacteria media and evaluated under the microscope.

First, the resulting beer from both yeasts tasted pretty good, lightly fruity and clean. Nothing unusual at all. The yeast also behaved as well, fermenting quickly, producing a moderate krausen and showing signs of good flocculation. The bad news, however, was that both yeast samples showed virtually no signs of containing any relevant quantities of wild yeast, brett, and/or bacteria. We did find some minor lacto and pedio, but nothing in any amount that could affect beer flavor. Thinking I had cross contaminated the samples with a pure culture, I went back to the original cultures and tested them again. And the results were similar. No brett and no bugs of any real significance.

So, wanting to know where the sourness/tart character came from, in the bottles that I had tried, I got a hold of another bottle (2003) and this time analyzed both the yeast dregs and the cork. Long story short, the yeast contained very little bugs, no brett that we could tell and the cork was chock full of mold, lacto-like rods, and pedio. That said, it makes me wonder if some of the sour character that people get with this beer is not from the beer itself, but rather from the contamination of the cork and its degradation over time.

Interestingly, I have been told from a few people that the Gales yeast (or at least wy1332) is a mutation of the Whitbread B strain. Interesting stuff.

[seymour]

Bierhaus, thank you very much for that in-debth post. Did you end up brewing a beer with your recultured Gales yeast? If so, how did it turn out?

You clearly know what you're doing, and are following vastly better lab procedures than me. Based on what you've shared, I'm sure whatever I grew up was not the Gales strain at all, but rather, bugs from the cork or some flaw in my santitation. My guess is lacto and pedio, the resulting beer tasted like a Berliner Weiss, very yogurty and tart. No brett pellicle ever formed. I have no need for that stuff, so I ended that experiment.

In my continuing quest for the Gales strain, I've repeated the experiment on my last bottle of Marble Dobber, paying closer attention to sanitation this time.

[seymour]

Bump.

So, no live yeast in my last bottle of Marble Dobber either. Shucks, too bad. It seems the fates are against me isolating the old Gales yeast.

But, I "brewed" another little yeast starter batch today using:

1/4 cup pale DME
1/4 cup amber DME
1 tsp molasses
East Kent Goldings hops
OG: 1048, IBU: 30, orange amber colour

I then pitched Ringwood Brewery dual-strain dregs from bottles of my Javelina ESB and Rosemary Golden Ale. Monkeybrew, your baggie contents are still alive and well in ol' St Louie, USA! Thanks again. I'm planning to use this resulting yeast slurry in an upcoming stout.



Might as well drink the bottle contents while I'm at it, right?

[seymour]

Bump.

... I "brewed" another little yeast starter batch today using:

1/4 cup pale DME
1/4 cup amber DME
1 tsp molasses
East Kent Goldings hops
OG: 1048, IBU: 30, orange amber colour

I then pitched Ringwood Brewery dual-strain dregs from bottles of my Javelina ESB and Rosemary Golden Ale. Monkeybrew, your baggie contents are still alive and well in ol' St Louie, USA! Thanks again. I'm planning to use this resulting yeast slurry in an upcoming stout...

Here's a picture of the resulting East Kent Goldings hop trial. I mean, we obviously all know what Goldings hops taste like, but I'm enjoying a palate calibration of sorts. I know exactly what went into this quick-and-dirty Best Bitter. Any and all hops characteristics came directly from Goldings hops and nothing else.

Hmmm...very smooth bitterness, flowery aroma, tangy flavour reminiscent of zesty orange marmalade, clover honey, faint earthiness. No harshness or rough edges whatsoever. No unpleasant weediness or spice. No distracting resiny traits. This Goldings hop isn't the only hop in the world, it isn't exactly right for every beer recipe, but it's easy to see why English brewers once thought it was. Good stuff.

[Clibit]

I like your tiny hop trial style.

[seymour]

I like your tiny hop trial style.

Tiny thanks, mate

[seymour]

I just drank one of these resulting trials last night.

Pale dry malt extract and molasses as described + Pride of Ringwood hops + Youngs ale yeast

Dry, earthy, delicious. Definitely something to scale up for a summer thirst-quencher.

[Clibit]

Looks great that. I must try a tiny hop trial. Get some bottles yeast on the go. Win win.

[seymour]

Yeah, totally. That's the idea!

[Clibit]

Do you use the yeast from one bottle conditioned commercial beer?

[seymour]

Do you use the yeast from one bottle conditioned commercial beer?

Yes, I have. Or a bottle of homebrew, or a yeast slant/slope, or dregs from a craft brewey growler, or yeast I saved in a jam jar in the fridge, etc.

[Clibit]

Do you use the yeast from one bottle conditioned commercial beer?

Yes, I have. Or a bottle of homebrew, or a yeast slant/slope, or dregs from a craft brewey growler, or yeast I saved in a jam jar in the fridge, etc.

OK thanks. Just thinking a single commercial bottle may not provide enough yeast. A tiny gamble perhaps. Russian brewlette.

[seymour]

Yeah, usually it's enough for such a tiny batch of wort. The fresher the better, as usual. The thing is, even if the yeast is stressed in this first step-up, the tiny batch doesn't need to taste glorious. If you learn something about a new hop and get a bigger, healthier yeast population, then it's a win-win situation. But yeah, to your point, if you can sacrifice more than one bottle of dregs...all the better.

[Clibit]

Cool, thank you.