Cambridge Beer Brew Experiment - POLL

[Maltloaf]

Dunno what MPG is, but no you can't

Muntons Premium Gold. Works for me. You've had a couple of beers with it so far...
ML.

[Tequilla6]

Stephenfranks,

I fully endorse what Jubby said, your not a million miles away and although this brew experiment was conceived as some fun for the Cambridge Beer meet I was put on the forums to allow anyone to join in and your in a position that means you are near enough to do just that.

ML, I knew the dry hopheads like Jubby and SMP465 would be pushing for one of the light beers and be serious competition for my preferences, as you could see from both my brews I'm the dark beer fan !!! However if it turns out to be the IPA which is looking favourite at the moment I will be throwing myself into it whole heartedly knowing the next brew we will probably be able to push for a dark style beer with little difficulty. As to the suggestion of yeast, it is a fact that the yeast plays a vital part in the flavour profile of the final beer and it was suggested at the beer meet that the Malt, Hops and Yeast should be the same. The equipment, water, water treatment, mash temp, boil and fermentation would be the variables. If you are unsure about yeast slopes, I admit I never used before, I'm happy to provide one or two starters from mine if that's easier for you.

However with all these descisions, things are variable, I'm open to suggestions until the final closed recipe is printed on the forum.

[Maltloaf]

I'm only joshin' Teq. Must put more smilies in!
I'm up for whatever is decided,
ML.

[Tequilla6]

And there was me thinking you were the first of me cats

[cooldad]

Just voted for IPA and sorry I couldn't be at the last meet. Would prefer to use dry yeast so4 or 5 all a level playing field then. as how you make your starter also affects the beer , but wyeast or white labs liquid is not a problem for me but have never used a slope so could be a disaster without some practice.

[jubby]

This whole thing sounds like a good idea. When is the brew planning to take place? I might be moving soon so wouldn't want to brew and have to shift it (although not a big problem) but it could become a regular-ish thing.

Sorry Totem, your post got lost in the banter.
Not sure when we're doing it. Tequilla6 is organising the brew, but it will be posted here when decided.

[JabbA]

Hi All,

Just got round to casting my vote (I kept my self busy last week actually working for a living!); not for a Porter Jubby but an IPA

Having said that I like the suggestion of an ESB, maybe just knocking down the IBUs of an IPA recipe as a middle ground

As to yeast, using a dried packet would level that particular variable and leave more room to discover the differences in our particular set-ups.

Cheers,
Jamie

[jubby]

Just got round to casting my vote (I kept my self busy last week actually working for a living!); not for a Porter Jubby but an IPA

Splendid! I think that's fairly unany..........youn.......unani.......I think we're all agreed then

[Tequilla6]

Voting closes at 8:27am on Tuesday 13th October and I already expect the IPA to win, so I am looking into recipes already and have spoken to a few of the guys around the type of IPA we should be doing. I will post my thoughts tomorrow I guess.

I hope everyone will be happy with the choice or choices I make.

Cheers

[jubby]

I hope everyone will be happy with the choice or choices I make.

Whatever you decide is good for me. ESB, IPA, dry yeast or liquid, as long as you don't restrict the amount of hops i can throw in (except IBU's of course)

[Tequilla6]

So Guys, The IPA has won the vote.

I now have some choices to make and I will try and explain why I have moved in a particular direction. Private posts to me are welcome from The Cambridge Beer Meet members as it's us that will be the main brewers on this one.

IPA is a wide beer style and there seems to be a number of sub beers based on them out there. I have decided against the American or Australian Style IPA's as this would involve the use of a number of expensive and sometime hard to source Hops varieties for us in the UK. I have also looked at some of the more initiative brewers within the UK brew scene and although some such as "Brewdog Brewery" are very interesting they suffer the same issues as the American IPA styles I feel. If we keep to well know British Hops the cost and availability will be there.

So our first criteria should be a Classic British IPA.

Now I have decided we should brew a traditional British style IPA due to hop cost and availability, and also because this idea really came about due to the discussions around the "Durden Park Beer Circle Book" we need to define our recipe. It seems that most of the original style British IPA's were hopped at around 200+ IBU and required maturation periods of around 12 months. If we are to taste the brews and compare within a reasonable time frame I guess this time period also rules out this kind of IPA. This was a problem that was also faced by British brewers in the 1840 I believe, who needed to come up with a product that would meet the growing demand for this style of beer for UK consumption. Without the need to cross the equator twice, formulations were relaxed and most British IPA in the late Nineteenth century had OG's in the range of 52-62 and hopping rates at around 1oz to 1.2oz per UK gallon. This style of beer would need a maturation period of around 8 weeks and is within a reasonable time frame I would suggest.

So in my opinion our second and third criteria for our IPA. Which is that it should have an OG of between 50-60 and a maximum hop rate around 1oz per gallon equating approx 70IBU as an upper limit.

I also like the idea of using a liquid yeast as the variety of yeasts available will allow us to pick a more specific IPA style yeast (Also never used one before), but I do understand that some of us may not have the capability of creating a starter culture from a slant. However as Jubby points out the White Lab liquid yeasts can be pitched directly and it also allows us starter guys the opportunity, and hey this is meant to be an education so if anyone has never used a liquid yeast here is your chance.

So forth Criteria is a liquid yeast will be used.

We now have two choices to make do we base our IPA on an old recipe or do we brew a more modern interpretation of an IPA that fits this style that we all know?

I have come up with two base recipes for your discussion one at the upper end and one at the lower end.

Mew-Langdon India Ale (1855)

Ingredients for 25 Litres based on 75% efficiency
4850gms Pale Malt
1100gms White Sugar
Max 130gms Goldings/Fuggles

Gives an OG 1060 ABV 7% @ max 70 IBU

Worthington White Shield IPA

Ingredients for 25 Litres based on 75% efficiency
4350gms Pale Malt
520gms White Sugar
365gms Crystal
Max 75gms Challenger/Northdown

Gives an OG 1.050 ABV 5.5% @ max 62 IBU

The hop addition schedule I would like to leave open as long as the min IBU of 40 for an IPA is adhered to. Check out and use Beer Engine or equivelent to confirm your Hop Schedules.
The only other decision is which yeast everyone would like to use . My suggestions are for a WHITE LABS LONDON ALE YEAST WLP013 for the Mews Langdon and a WHITE LABS BURTON ALE YEAST WLP023 for the White Shield. But I'm open to suggestions on this. So lets get the discussions going on my proposals and agree on our IPA recipe and yeast.

Cheers

[Maltloaf]

Cool. Nice work Tequilla. I'm stuck for choice though - I have the ingredients for the White Shield (apart from the yeast), but I'm not going to push for it any more than the Mew-Langdon. I'll have to make an order either way, even if it's just for the yeast.

How many retailers of White Labs Yeast are there, and are they ready to have their shelves cleared? If it looks like we're all going to hit the same place should we warn them first so they get some stock in?

Now I just need some fermenting space...the ginger beer has been 16 days so far!
ML.

[jubby]

Cool. Nice work Tequilla.

I'll second that; well done.

I would vote for the White Shield personally as i like the idea of increasing body with a fair amount of crystal, then reducing it with sugar. Never tried that so it will be interesting. I have tried both of those yeasts and they are both excellent, so either is good for me. I know H&G sell it, not sure if anyone else does..

So, White Shield for me, but i am quiet happy to go with the Mew-Langdon.

Just had a thought If it's going to be White Shield, dare i suggest harvesting yeast from a bottle of White Shield .... ... ...

[JabbA]

Good work T6,

I'm with Jubby- White Shield for me But I'd be happy to brew t'other recipe as well.

I've not used a liquid yeast before so that'll be fun! I think I'll get hold of some little PET bottles and use Jim's method of spilting it to get my money's worth

Cheers,
Jamie

[jubby]

Just had a thought If it's going to be White Shield, dare i suggest harvesting yeast from a bottle of White Shield .... ... ...

I'm talking boll*cks again!! Forget that ridiculous suggestion, I have taken myself outside and given myself a stiff talking to. See quote below.

It looks like Graham was right, Worthingtons were being a little economical with the truth about bottling yeast.

I contacted the head brewer regarding heavily carbonated bottles and yeast etc and this was his reply...


Your gushing problem is undoubtedly caused by the stability of the gas in the beer. Being bottle conditioned, White Shield is designed to have 3 volumes of gas (CO2) in the bottle. This is quite a lot and more than you would find in most "chilled and filtered beers". Any movement of the bottle or temperature change upwards will cause the gas to come out of solution. If the bottle is opened in this "unstable state" gushing will occur. Chilling the beer will help since cold beer will hold more gas than warm beer, and if you do this you will find a chill haze developing. This will disappear almost immediately the beer is brought back to room temperature. Far better is to keep the beer at a steady 10 to 14 degrees celcius for a few days to allow equilibration to take place (difficult if you've just brought home a few bottles from Sainsbury and have a thirst!).

As far as the yeast is concerned, the yeast you will find in the bottle is a secondary yeast that is put into the beer prior to bottling. It will be more difficult to brew with as it tends to sediment quickly, sometimes before fermentation is complete. This is quite important in a bottle conditioned beer as we want the yeast out of solution when fermentation in bottle is complete, preferably sticking to the bottom of the bottle like glue. Our primary yeast is quite different and is a mixture of two strains.

The problem with multi strain yeasts is that they change their relative ratios the more they are re-pitched consequently they have to be re-cultured after every 5 brews.

Your fermentation temperature look about right. 16C is a good starting temperature and a rise to 20C, holding at 20C until the gravity has reached where you want it.

In terms of residual gravity before bottling, the beer will have 1 vol of gas in after fermentation, consequently a further 2 vols need to be generated. 1 degree of gravity will produce 0.4 vols of gas therefore to produce 2 extra volumes (on top of the 1 volume already in the beer) i.e 5 degrees of fermentable residue..

Blending one brew on top of another will have no significant effect on fermentation but is merely done to ensure consistency of product.

As you can see, the high gas content of White Shield does have its problems but it does add to the overall taste of the beer and, since it is produced naturally from fermentation, it is not overly aggressive. Worth a bit of patience I would venture to suggest!!



Sounds like the bottling yeast is a White Shield strain (perhaps cultured from the original ?) but not the primary strain.