American IPA and Speciality Grains

[Barley Water]

but it wouldn't be fun if I nailed every brew on the first try...

much like dating in that regard

[YeastWhisperer]

Of course, this from a guy who brewed the IPA currently on tap at my house with the notorious Ringwood strain (but then I didn't have any crystal malt in the grist).

Ringwood was my house ale yeast from 1994 through 1999. However, I had a real Ringwood culture that I harvested from a primary fermentation vessel at a Peter Austin and Partners designed and built brewery. The cultures that White Labs and Wyeast sell do not appear to be real Ringwood. Real Ringwood is a multi-strain culture. I plated my Ringwood culture and reassembled the mixed culture by testing single colonies until I had identified the major players. Major player A is a highly flocculent strain. Major player B chews through wort. I also found a couple of minor players that I believe were mutants. The highly flocculent strain is what makes real Ringwood so unpredictable. It is the reason why commercial breweries that use Ringwood use open fermentation vessels and aerate on the second day with a shower head looking device. Real Ringwood has a very distinct flavor profile that is missing in the Wyeast and White Labs offerings.

[Jocky]

WLP002 has done me proud taking this from 1.068 to 1.014, and the combination of it and the 5% pale crystal have left a very pleasant taste without it being like dried fruit, or pruny, meanwhile the hop flavour is fantastic.

But it's not bitter enough - that may yet change, or I may have to redo with considerably more bittering hops!

[Barley Water]

Yeah I have read that several times. I would think that in a mixed strain yeast one of the strains would dominate over time. Of course, I have not been in a microbiology lab in years (as in decades) so what the hell do I know. If I could get some of the real stuff I would be more than happy to do some extensive testing. The stuff you can buy from the major suppliers is fairly goofy; it can stall out on you or start really slow, even after making a pretty big starter. I do however enjoy the results so I'll continue to use it. I also use the Fuller's strain quite a bit as I am a really big fan of their beers however I'm generally making lower gravity British ales where high attenuation is not a goal.

[YeastWhisperer]

WLP002 has done me proud taking this from 1.068 to 1.014, and the combination of it and the 5% pale crystal have left a very pleasant taste without it being like dried fruit, or pruny, meanwhile the hop flavour is fantastic.

But it's not bitter enough - that may yet change, or I may have to redo with considerably more bittering hops!

In my humble opinion, you would do better to switch to a less flocculent yeast strain. Highly flocculent strains like WLP002 strip bitterness during flocculation.

I am with BarleyWater when it comes to brewing ale. It puzzles me when I see Brits wanting to duplicate American ale styles, as I consider most of our ale styles to be completely out of balance hacks and stunts (especially the stuff coming out of Southern California). American pale ale was created because American brewers were stuck with domestic 2-row and high myrcene hop cultivars during the early days of the amateur brewing revival (myrcene is the hop essential oil that smells/tastes like citrus). American 2-row is the melba toast/tofu of the 2-row world. An all British pale malt beer tastes great. An all American 2-row beer is bland beyond belief, which is one of the reasons why American ale styles tend to be hop forward.

I recently took a growler of my latest batch of Slumlord Pale Ale to an AHA Rally. The twenty-somethings were blown away when they tasted it. This cohort has grown up on over-hopped American stunt beer (DIPA, Black IPA, everything but the kitchen sink beer, ...). They could not believe the depth of flavor that a beer with only one malt (Thomas Fawcett Pearl), two British-origin hop cultivars (one of which is a triploid of version of the other), and a non-neutral English yeast strain could produce. I converted several young amateur brewers that day.

[Barley Water]

especially the stuff coming out of Southern California

Humm......you wouldn't by any chance be talking about the popular beer which features a gargole on the label would you? Better be careful there otherwise you'll get me on my rant concerning Chinook hops and alot of crystal malt in IPA's. By the way, I tried one of those so called "sessionable IPA's" from a So Cal brewery who uses a modified union system and really didn't like it. Strange thing though, that brewery makes one of my favorite domestic English Pale Ales; guess you don't hit the bulls eye every time out.

[Jocky]

I appreciate what you're saying YW, and I'll certainly keep in mind that a less flocculent yeast strain would help. But I think you've got me wrong on this one.

I love the English malt - my switch to AG was because I just didn't get those flavours from extract brews, and my first AG was a bigger version of an English Brown Ale - a real malt bomb.

I'm not really intending to reproduce US style hop bombs, but I'm learning the ropes here, and I think it's disingenuous to say that there's nothing to learn from them with respect to having bigger beers with more extreme flavours, and keeping that all in balance.

Equally I may be utterly deluded about the quality of certain US beers as I only see and try a small amount, and I regularly visit several London based micros that do a superb range of beers, including some US style IPAs all made with a delightful English malty backbone.

[Jocky]

I should add that if you or Barley ever come over to London then send me a message and I'll take you on a tour of the best micros and old style pubs that the city can offer.

[Barley Water]

Better be careful ther Jocky, I may well take you up on that. My youngest daughter just graduated from college which means hopefully my disposable income is "fix'in" to rise as they say here in Texas. I badly want to visit the UK so I can try quaffing at a real pub and have real cask ale. Interestingly the micro scene here in Dallas has really heated up in the last couple of years, the number of small breweries has just sky rocketed. Sadly, I can think of only one off the top of my head that has a decent English ale. What the hell is wrong with these people? Anyhow, at least I know how to make the stuff myself. Hopefully next year I will be able to make the trip and pray at the shrine which is Fuller's, rather like the Haj for me.

[YeastWhisperer]

Humm......you wouldn't by any chance be talking about the popular beer which features a gargole on the label would you? Better be careful there otherwise you'll get me on my rant concerning Chinook hops and alot of crystal malt in IPA's. By the way, I tried one of those so called "sessionable IPA's" from a So Cal brewery who uses a modified union system and really didn't like it. Strange thing though, that brewery makes one of my favorite domestic English Pale Ales; guess you don't hit the bulls eye every time out.

I am not naming names, but your comments are on the money.

[orlando]

I badly want to visit the UK so I can try quaffing at a real pub and have real cask ale. 9/quote]

I can think of only one off the top of my head that has a decent English ale. What the hell is wrong with these people?

Connect the dots. Reading Vs Drinking.

[Jocky]

Hopefully next year I will be able to make the trip and pray at the shrine which is Fuller's, rather like the Haj for me.

London has a bit of an odd brewing history, in that while it once brewed millions of barrels from dozens of brewers in the 18th/19th century, it was down to just two breweries in 2006 when Youngs closed the Ram brewery. The two left were Fullers (1845) and Meantime which had only been opened in 2000.

Now we have over 90 breweries again, producing almost every imaginable style, and the majority of those opened in the past 4 years.

There's a whole range of reasons why the breweries all shut, but it was replicated all over the country, and one of the causes or effects (I don't know) was that the beer often got a bit bland. If you go up north then you'll find a few more of the old breweries, but a lot of their beers are bland too, whereas newer breweries (such as the excellent Hogs Back in Surrey, which was founded in the 90s) are producing a much higher quality product.

Luckily for you, Fullers is one of those that has consistently produced a great product.

So don't be too quick to praise all our beer and history and put your own down - there's a lot of dull, lifeless beer over here too. I suspect that we only get to try the best of the American beers, and you only try the best of ours.

I hope one day I can show you this myself and discuss it at length over a (possibly slightly warm for your taste) beer or two.

[YeastWhisperer]

I am under no illusion that all British ale is good. My first experience with British beer was Bass Ale followed by Watney's Red Barrel. Both of these beers left a lot to be desired.

With that said, my first experience with craft-style British ale occurred in late 1989. The beer was Wild Goose IPA. I remember being completely blown away when I drank it. Wild Goose was a pioneer in the American microbrewery revolution. The brewery was designed by Peter Austin. Like all of the Peter Austin systems that were installed in America, Alan Pugsley oversaw its installation. Almost all of the microbrews that one could get on the East Coast were actually contract-brewed beers at that point in time. Wild Goose IPA was an authentic British ale that was formulated by a British brewmaster and brewed in an English-style brew house, complete with a direct-fired, brick enclosed kettle, hopback, and open fermentation vessels equipped with rousing/aeration heads.

My introduction to British-style real ale occurred a few years later at the Wharf Rat, which was a brewpub that contained a Peter Austin designed system. I have not been to this brewpub in a number of years (it has been renamed the Pratt Street Ale House), but they used to be the only brewpub in the area where one could find beers of ordinary bitter gravity that were dispensed by hand pump.

[YeastWhisperer]

I was unaware that Peter Austin passed away earlier this year. Here is a link an article about his impact on the microbrewery movement worldwide: http://protzonbeer.co.uk/features/2014/ ... ro-brewing

[Barley Water]

I suspect the problem you guys have over there is that the temperance movement has dumbed down many of your beers causing quality problems in many cases. I gather however that things are changing for the better which is a good thing. I get the sense (mostly from reading posts on this forum) that homebrewing is just starting to bloom over there as is craft brewing. The big guys are losing market share and the only folks growing are the craft brewers. Here in Dallas things are booming but I bet in 5 years or so it will be easy to pick up a used brewing system relatively cheaply as some of these guys go out of business. Right now over here craft beer is very fashionable but the hipsters will soon move on to something else, maybe designer pot?