Really good Stout Recipe

[MTW]

I was thinking the same about the assumption that a stout naturally buffers high alkalinity water. If you run the grain bill through a calculator such as brewer's friend, you can find that it still needs some extra acid from somewhere, to hit a decent pH.

[orlando]

I was thinking the same about the assumption that a stout naturally buffers high alkalinity water. If you run the grain bill through a calculator such as brewer's friend, you can find that it still needs some extra acid from somewhere, to hit a decent pH.

Do you know exactly what your alkalinity is? If you haven't got one a Salifert (Alkalinity) kit will tell you, don't rely on a local water report, they are snapshots and often just an average.

[Battleaxe]

From my calculations my water needs a small amount of CRS and a small addition of gypsum in the mash and boil to achieve the correct mash Ph.

You suggest brown malt, I used this in my last porter and do have some left would this be a better substitute for flaked barley than Carapils?

[orlando]

From my calculations my water needs a small amount of CRS and a small addition of gypsum in the mash and boil to achieve the correct mash Ph.

You suggest brown malt, I used this in my last porter and do have some left would this be a better substitute for flaked barley than Carapils?

Different in my view as far as fullness to palate that the flaked barley brings, but Carapils also helps to provide body and mouthfeel and support head retention. Carapils plays the role of a crystal malt and is a brand name. Flaked Barley won't give you those qualities so you could argue that both should be used. Neither will add much colour so if you are looking for really dark black malt is your friend, gives incredible coffee notes too, just don't go mad.

[Battleaxe]

From my calculations my water needs a small amount of CRS and a small addition of gypsum in the mash and boil to achieve the correct mash Ph.

You suggest brown malt, I used this in my last porter and do have some left would this be a better substitute for flaked barley than Carapils?

Different in my view as far as fullness to palate that the flaked barley brings, but Carapils also helps to provide body and mouthfeel and support head retention. Carapils plays the role of a crystal malt and is a brand name. Flaked Barley won't give you those qualities so you could argue that both should be used. Neither will add much colour so if you are looking for really dark black malt is your friend, gives incredible coffee notes too, just don't go mad.

Hmmmmmm, I have black malt also I had heard that roasted barley is used instead of brown and black malt?

[TheSumOfAllBeers]

Only in a dry Irish stout. These are not equivalent products

[orlando]

From my calculations my water needs a small amount of CRS and a small addition of gypsum in the mash and boil to achieve the correct mash Ph.

You suggest brown malt, I used this in my last porter and do have some left would this be a better substitute for flaked barley than Carapils?

Different in my view as far as fullness to palate that the flaked barley brings, but Carapils also helps to provide body and mouthfeel and support head retention. Carapils plays the role of a crystal malt and is a brand name. Flaked Barley won't give you those qualities so you could argue that both should be used. Neither will add much colour so if you are looking for really dark black malt is your friend, gives incredible coffee notes too, just don't go mad.

Hmmmmmm, I have black malt also I had heard that roasted barley is used instead of brown and black malt?

Tear up the rule book. I was just giving some tips about smoothing out harsh roasty flavours, OK black wasn't, but the take home here is decide how you want this to be then pick the malts to deliver, not those for a "style", which I thought was where you were coming from.

[Battleaxe]

Hmmmmmm, I have black malt also I had heard that roasted barley is used instead of brown and black malt?

Tear up the rule book. I was just giving some tips about smoothing out harsh roasty flavours, OK black wasn't, but the take home here is decide how you want this to be then pick the malts to deliver, not those for a "style", which I thought was where you were coming from.

I follow you, I was really asking weather black malt vs Roasted vs brown what is the go to combination... And then what's the twisted version for a different experience. Time isn't on my side I'm afraid so I've basically only got what's In the malt box I have most things bar flaked barley... So I've been trying To make something in the vein of a dark full bodied ale or "Stout" with what I have to hand.

[orlando]

I follow you, I was really asking weather black malt vs Roasted vs brown what is the go to combination... And then what's the twisted version for a different experience. Time isn't on my side I'm afraid so I've basically only got what's In the malt box I have most things bar flaked barley... So I've been trying To make something in the vein of a dark full bodied ale or "Stout" with what I have to hand.

If you don't have the flaked barley that's fine, the beer will just have a different mouthfeel that's all. Go for something 5% + and if you're not too bothered about the smooth flavour thing then roast barley with a dab of black (1-2%) will give you a nice Stout.

[Battleaxe]

I follow you, I was really asking weather black malt vs Roasted vs brown what is the go to combination... And then what's the twisted version for a different experience. Time isn't on my side I'm afraid so I've basically only got what's In the malt box I have most things bar flaked barley... So I've been trying To make something in the vein of a dark full bodied ale or "Stout" with what I have to hand.

If you don't have the flaked barley that's fine, the beer will just have a different mouthfeel that's all. Go for something 5% + and if you're not too bothered about the smooth flavour thing then roast barley with a dab of black (1-2%) will give you a nice Stout.

Sounds like a plan, would it benefit from either dark crystal or Carapils? For body? And would chocolate malt get lost in the mix?

[Barley Water]

Well for what ever it is worth I'll tell you my take on water treatment. I have moderately hard water here in North Texas with both temporary and permanent hardness. It is slightly alkaline as well. I consider the stuff pretty good for making dark beers however it can cause some problems when making the light stuff. Thing is, I'm lazy. What I do is use the 5.2 buffer stuff in all my beers (besides running everything through a charcoal filter) and it seems to work. When making light beers I have started to cut my water with distilled water however I still use the buffer just in case. To summarize it's quick, it's cheap and most importantly it seems to work as the beers come out pretty nice. I also batch sparge for a couple of reasons. First, it's easy to do with my set up plus it allows me to control the pH of the sparge and hopefully avoiding extracting tannins which can mess up the flavor of your beer. The other thing high mineral water will do is alter the hop flavor but in a beer as dark and strongly flavored as stout I don't worry about that as much as I would when making say an IPA.

As an aside, if the goal here is to make a bigger American style stout I don't know that I would bother worrying about body since that pretty much takes care of itself once beer exceeds about O.G. 1.055 or so. Also, when using crystal malt remember that once the stuff gets really dark you start getting plumb/raisin flavors as versus sweet/caramel (Special B being an extreme example). I personally can see a slight caramel flavor in a stout but I don't know that the dried fruit thing would work all that well but of course that is a personal preference kind of deal.

[orlando]

I follow you, I was really asking weather black malt vs Roasted vs brown what is the go to combination... And then what's the twisted version for a different experience. Time isn't on my side I'm afraid so I've basically only got what's In the malt box I have most things bar flaked barley... So I've been trying To make something in the vein of a dark full bodied ale or "Stout" with what I have to hand.

If you don't have the flaked barley that's fine, the beer will just have a different mouthfeel that's all. Go for something 5% + and if you're not too bothered about the smooth flavour thing then roast barley with a dab of black (1-2%) will give you a nice Stout.

Sounds like a plan, would it benefit from either dark crystal or Carapils? For body? And would chocolate malt get lost in the mix?

Chocolate malt is something of a misnomer in my view and leads people to thinking the more you use the chocolatier, wrong! Overuse it and it can be very astringent, use it in combination with crystal and black and it can actually smooth the black out and give a nice chocolate/coffee combination so I would look to use it in conjunction with the others and drop the Carapils.

[Battleaxe]

Sounds like a plan, would it benefit from either dark crystal or Carapils? For body? And would chocolate malt get lost in the mix?

Chocolate malt is something of a misnomer in my view and leads people to thinking the more you use the chocolatier, wrong! Overuse it and it can be very astringent, use it in combination with crystal and black and it can actually smooth the black out and give a nice chocolate/coffee combination so I would look to use it in conjunction with the others and drop the Carapils.

Something like this ?

ABV 6.5%
OG 1.069
FG 1.020
IBU 40
EBC 78

Grist

4.5lt batch (demijohn)

Pale - 1157g 85.7%
Crystal 90 - 68g 5.0%
Roasted Barley - 68g 5.0%
Black malt - 28g - 2.0%
Chocolate - 28g 2.0%

Thoughts please

[daf]

Looks okay but I still think a stout needs something to give it that thicker mouthfeel..........

[Barley Water]

You want more mouthfeel on a 1.069 O,G. beer? I guess if I was trying to make a Milk Stout or maybe an Oatmeal stout I could agree but I respectfully disagree if we are talking about an American Stout. Remember, he is contemplating 5% Crystal 90L which is going to boost the terminal gravity. As a previous poster correctly stated, everyone has their own individual idea about stouts and I suppose this exchange just bears that out. I guess using a less attenuative yeast as well as mashing hot are other ways to boost mouthfeel if indeed that is desired.