Next Fuller's ESB attempt!

[monk]

Hmmm. A bit disappointed in this one, unfortunately. It has a powerful sweet corn flavor to it, which I assume came from the flaked maize (used 1 lb.). Perhaps it will fade? I hope so. It has a nice malty taste, but that's being overshadowed heavily by the cloying corn.

monk

[oblivious]

Just wondering if the corn flavour could be from DMS, as American pilsners commonly use 1 pound or more of corn in recipes?

[Wilbur]

I've done several beers using flaked corn/maize, I've never as much as tasted the corn or any corn sweetness even on the lightest of beers. I have noticed that I get a odd kind of sweet flavor from dry hopping with EKG's, I only use 14g for dry hopping but that odd flavor comes through and does age out quite nicely.

[Wilbur]

Here's a good article by Michael Jackson http://rarebeerclub.beveragebistro.com/rbcbeer_12.html This is about Fuller's ESESB, notice he says it still follows the ESB recipe just stronger and uses different hops and hop schedule.

Here's the bit where they talk about the recipe.

Whilst this beer was to be special, it still was to be ESB. We therefore kept the original ESB recipe: 91.5% pale ale malt (optic barley variety), 3.5% crystal malt and 5% flake maize, but we decided to push this to the limits and produce a stronger than normal version. We managed to push the gravity from 1054 to 1060, and the alcohol to 6.1%. This should rise to maybe as high as 6.3%, because it is bottle-conditioned.

We also changed the hops to 100% Goldings, and doubled the late copper hopping rate. This resulted in a bitterness of 42.55 (the normal ESB target is 34). After fermentation we then dry hopped the ESB in the maturation tank with Goldings. We left the beer in tank for 3 months, and bottled the beer with a count of 0.5 million yeast cells.

I've made a couple of attempts at this beer and I can't get that rich caramel/malty flavor down, they use 3.5% crystal I've doubled that with medium crystal and it doesn't even come close. My next batch will be with Dingemanns Special B at 3.5% hopefully that will get me closer.

[Wilbur]

When he says Golding's I assume he means East Kent Golding's, is that correct? The reason I ask is because Stryian Goldings also work well in bitters and the Fuller's ESB I recently purchased here in the States has a bit of that flavor.
Of course the six pack of bottles I bought were almost a full year past the best by date of 6 April 2006 and who knows how much abuse it has had in that time, and yet it was still one of the best beers I've had.

[monk]

I had to look up the flaked corn you listed earlier in the thread, not knowing it is the same as flaked maize and saw Palmer suggests quantities if 1/2-2lbs in a beer so I wouldn't have thought 1lb excessive, I have a few recipes of similar gravities using similar quantities also.
Shame about the corn taste but at least it gives you an excuse to have another go, did you ever get round trying the Dave Line ESB recipe?

I think Dave's recipe will be my next attempt, though I'll have to get some English malt for base. Right now i've still got ~25 lbs. of american 2-row to use up! Guess that only leaves one thing to do...

[monk]

Just wondering if the corn flavour could be from DMS, as American pilsners commonly use 1 pound or more of corn in recipes?

What's DMS? I'm not sure I'm familiar with that. The recipe actually called for 2 lbs. of corn...so I don't think the quantity is the problem, either.

[monk]

I have noticed that I get a odd kind of sweet flavor from dry hopping with EKG's, I only use 14g for dry hopping but that odd flavor comes through and does age out quite nicely.

Thanks for all the tips, Wilbur. The above is probably the reason for the sweet taste, as I dryhopped with about an ounce of EKG...

[monk]

I'm not too sure it's DMS. I use an immersion chiller and the wort spent possibly 30-45 minutes between flame out and pitching temp. That doesn't seem like too long.

Also, the dryhop theory seems probable particularly because I accidentally dumped a lot of goldings in...like 1 oz. or a bit more. That seemed a little excessive at the time, perhaps it was.

I'm get back to you all on how it ages. I assume that if it's a problem of DMS it will continue to be corny and not age out, right?

monk

[bitter_dave]

This is how they describe Goldings on the charles farum website

Traditional aroma variety, smooth almost sweet delicate slightly spicy

I've noticed that beers which have been dry hopped with goldings and attenuated down low (1006) have developed a slightly sweet taste after a period of maturation; perhaps the goldings are contributing to the sweetness?