German Pils recipe

[196osh]

Mmmmmmm lawn clippings. *drools*.

Not bitter, but hoppy?

[mysterio]

I bloody well hope it's hoppy

Mittelfruh are pretty mild though, the light roast coffee of the hop world. I think Hersbruker are a bit more punchier.

[196osh]

You should make an Imperial Pils next with a shed load of Yankee hops in it.

With the slurry that is.

[steve_flack]

Mittelfruh are pretty mild though, the light roast coffee of the hop world. I think Hersbruker are a bit more punchier.

Lovely in something gentle though. Like a Kolsch or Helles. I break my 'use Magnum for everything' bittering rule for those beers.

[Barley Water]

I am working up my starter for a weekend pilsner as we speak. Here is a question for you Mr. Flack, I planned on using Pearl for bittering however you mention Magnum, are there any advantages over the Pearl? Most Bitburger clone formulations I have seen use Pearl but as usual, I am flexible. I probably won't even get around to purchasing ingredients until Saturday.

[steve_flack]

I've not used Perle but there's plenty of folks on here that despise it - I think they describe it as minty. Personally I wouldn't have a problem with using magnum in a German Pils. The real thing is probably done with hop extract anyway. You won't need as much Magnum as it's very high alpha and it has rather low co-humulone so give clean bittering. I'm not sure if there's any difference between the Yakima and German grown Magnum. I'm currently using German grown whole cone Magnum. I've got half a kilo at 15.1% alpha so they'll last a while.

[bosium]

Personally, I just bitter with low-alpha varieties - I'm not in this hobby to save money but rather to make the best beer possible. I accept that not everyone takes this view however, so your mileage may vary. I use whole hops, so I guess if I was shooting for a really high IBU level, I'd have to use a high-alpha variety but I'm just scared that my tender tastebuds will taste that fabled 'harsh bitterness'...

Maybe I'm just a big baby.

[steve_flack]

Magnum isn't harsh though. In fact rather the contrary. It's so clean it sometimes tastes less bitter than you'd expect it to.

[bosium]

Hmm, well then I might try it someday. I've always been a little scared to try it tbh, which is why I usually just bit the bullet and spend a couple of extra quid for more of the low-alpha hops in case I don't like the result.

[Barley Water]

I have used Pearl in the past in both a CAP and an Alt, both times I was pleased with the results. It's not big deal for me to get hold of either German Pearl or Magnum, I just want to use the variety which will give the best results. The problem I see with using low alpha noble hops for bittering is that because of the low alpha acid concentration, you end up adding a much larger amount of vegetal matter to the brew kettle to get the bittering you want which I believe can cause issues with flavor also. You are correct in saying that the bitterness will be smoother but there seems like there are always tradeoffs. Just like making IPA's, a good bitter pils will be so much better if one can avoid the harsh aspects but I don't want a vegetable taste either (picky Texan, what can I say).

[steve_flack]

Hmm, well then I might try it someday. I've always been a little scared to try it tbh, which is why I usually just bit the bullet and spend a couple of extra quid for more of the low-alpha hops in case I don't like the result.

Not all high alpha hops are rough and not all low alpha are smooth. Cascade for example is pretty high cohumulone and much lower in alpha than Magnum. I'd much rather use Magnum for bittering and save cascade for what it's best - aroma and flavour.

[Aleman]

Well I'm planning on brewing two batches of German Pilsner using more or less the same recipe for both, The first will be a 20L starter for the second 70L batch . . .I'm sort of going for the Latte hops of the beer world

for 20L at 1.046 and 39 IBU

3750g Lager Malt
250g Carapils

45g NZ Pacific Hallertau 4.4% AA FWH
40g Hallertau Mittelfruh 4.1% AA 15 Minutes
20g Hallertau Hersbrucker 2.8% 80C Steep.

I'll pitch this with about 40g of w34/70 and ferment at 12C for 4 or 5 days then I'll make this one

70l at 1.046 and 39 IBU

13120g Lager Malt
880g Carapils

135g NZ Pacific Hallertau 4.4% AA FWH
40g Hallertau Mittelfruh 4.1% AA 90 Minutes
100g Hallertau Mittelfruh 4.1% AA 15 Minutes
70g Hallertau Hersbrucker 2.8% 80C Steep.

And I'll pitch the fermenting wort from the first batch straight onto the fresh wort.

Not aiming for anything specific just a 'generic' north German Pilsner

[bosium]

The problem I see with using low alpha noble hops for bittering is that because of the low alpha acid concentration, you end up adding a much larger amount of vegetal matter to the brew kettle to get the bittering you want which I believe can cause issues with flavor also...

I have heard this before, usually in the context of hop haze or vegetal flavours. However, I've used as much as 200g or so in a 22l batch before and noticed no ill effects at all and the beer turned out delicious with an incredibly smooth bitterness and rich hop flavour.

Not all high alpha hops are rough and not all low alpha are smooth.

Sure, I can believe that a good high alpha hop could be smooth but can it really taste better than using all low-alpha hops? (and here I'm specifically referring to noble hops)

[mysterio]

Bosium, given a choice I would rather use less hops and get more flavour out of them. Following on from what Barley Water says, I think the more hop matter you put in the more tannin you get, and the more lagering the beer will need. But like you say, lagering is hopefully what we're doing with our lagers so it's no big deal.

[Aleman]

There is another factor that you need to consider when hopping exclusively with low alpha hops to a 'high' IBU level, and that is one of 'Hop Loading' It has been shown, that the more hops you use in a batch of beer the lower the actual bitterness . . . and this can be as much as only achieving around 85% of the expected bittering levels.

In effect what it means is that 200g of 2.5% aa acid hops does not produce the same IBU as 50g of 10% AA hops (All other factors being equal) . . . despite what the majority of formulas predict . . .I think Tinseth may take this into account in one of the fudge factors as his formula was derived empirically to fit the observed results from the experiments and actual measurements. (Sounds like a fun project for a brewing science student )

From what Steve says Magnum may very well be a nice 'neutral' High Alpha bittering hop for pilsner type beers . . . leaving the 'noble' hops for flavour and aroma . . . and also reducing the hop loading effect on the kettle utilisation