TTL: Caramelize or not?

[Grot]

I'm brewing a TTL in honor of Wyeast rereleasing Timothy Taylor's yeast. I'm going to use the standard Wheeler recipe from BYORAAH but I've read about reducing some of the first runnings to mimic kettle caramelization. Has anyone out there actually done this? Would you recommend it? Cheers.

[aceuass]

Dont know if this helps
http://jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... thy+taylor
Cheers
Paul

[Barley Water]

I have not ever made that particular beer however I frequently boil down some of the first runnings and you will for sure notice a carmel/toffee note in the beer if you do this (a taste I really like by the way). I collect a couple of quarts of first runnings and boil them down on the kitchen stove while I complete the sparge. I then just add that back to the boiler and finish the brew as usual. Just watch what you are doing and it should come out very well, you don't want to burn the wort. It will get noticebly darker and thicker, smells really nice while you are boiling it also. I like this technique for brown ales and also for Munich dunkels where I am looking for maximum meloidians.

[Grot]

Dont know if this helps
http://jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... thy+taylor
Cheers
Paul

Mmm, made me thirsty. It looks like Monk never reported on his results.

I have not ever made that particular beer however I frequently boil down some of the first runnings and you will for sure notice a carmel/toffee note in the beer if you do this (a taste I really like by the way). I collect a couple of quarts of first runnings and boil them down on the kitchen stove while I complete the sparge. I then just add that back to the boiler and finish the brew as usual. Just watch what you are doing and it should come out very well, you don't want to burn the wort. It will get noticebly darker and thicker, smells really nice while you are boiling it also. I like this technique for brown ales and also for Munich dunkels where I am looking for maximum meloidians.

I've done this for Scottish ales and really liked it. It's been a year since my last pint of Landlord , so I don't remember how much caramel flavor there was, if any. I'm not as worried about color as taste but I may boil longer than I usually do to try to darken it up.

[RabMaxwell]

I caramelize all my british style ales by fiercely boiling down the first runnings then adding back you get a real increased caramel malty richness don't be scared to really boil the crap out of it. Lovely

[Whorst]

What about gravity points? Surely by boiling down the first runnings, there's going to be an increase in starting gravity. I would just boil the shit out of it for 1 hour. Add a small amount of chocolate, roast barley, or black patent at the time your sparge. Here's my recipe, which I'll be brewing next week.

4.18 kg. Golden Promise Pale
56g Chocolate malt added to mash tun at time of sparge
35 g. Fuggle (Pellets, 5 %AA) boiled 60 min.
31 g. Styrian Goldings (Whole, 4 %AA) boiled 60 min.
22 g. East Kent Goldings (Pellets, 4.5 %AA) boiled 10 min. info
31.17 grams Styrian - whirlpool and steep 45 mins (not included in calculations)

Yeast : WYeast 1469 West Yorkshire

[RabMaxwell]

What about gravity points? Surely by boiling down the first runnings, there's going to be an increase in starting gravity. I would just boil the shit out of it for 1 hour. Add a small amount of chocolate, roast barley, or black patent at the time your sparge. Here's my recipe, which I'll be brewing next week.

I don't get an increase in starting gravity although if i am short in the FV i sparge my hops until i reach the fV level i want.I live in scotland & for years i could not make scottish ales with the inteanse caramel / maltyness i would often get in the pub.I tried allsorts more crystal specialty malts melanoidin malt ect with no joy untill i adopted carmelizing the first runnings.I have visited a few scottish micro breweries & most only use a very small amount of caramalt with most of the caramel /maltyness coming from kettle carmelization.My belief is that our home brew set-ups struggle to achieve the carmelized flavours evident in so many Scottish & English ales.I routinely boil about 4-5 gallons of the first runnings utill it's as thick as malt extract in my 120 litre brews i try to estimate the colour it's adding & cut back on coloured malts

[mysterio]

I think Rab is bang on, boil the hell out of those runnings and add them back to the main boil. It's a flavour you can't mimic and i'll bet you'll find it's the flavour you've been missing from your TTL clones. Remember the copper kettles some of these brewers are using will greatly intensify caramelisation/browning that we're not getting on the HB level.

It's a copper beer, and most recipes specify the use of only GP malt - must be kettle caramalisation surely.

What about gravity points? Surely by boiling down the first runnings, there's going to be an increase in starting gravity.

Nah, you're not altering the final volume at all, you still adjust in the main boil to get the starting gravity you're looking for.

[monk]

Mmm, made me thirsty. It looks like Monk never reported on his results.

Hello. This was a nice brew, but I think it was missing a little something in two areas. I can't be sure because I've never had the real thing, but from what I hear...

1. it lacked some maltiness, probably because I used nottingham and it attenuated very high. From reading the TT yeast description, I think it's dry, but leaves a little more malty flavor.

2. I think it should have had a bit of carmelization or maybe a little crystal. Mine turned out very light, like straw. I've seen photos that have a gold to slight orange color, which must come from a bit of one of the above. I'd go for carmelization, if I were you.

Good luck!

[iowalad]

As a faithful member of the herd I will be making a TTL this weekend. It will be based on Wheeler although I will muck with the hop schedule some including some styrian steeping.

I am inclined to caramelize. I was thinking 2 liters and reducing down to 1 liter. Rab seems to suggest this is not enough both in terms or total amount caramelized and amount of reduction! I only make 18 liter batches (5 us gal). Maybe I will let it go down to more like 1/2 a liter.

Unfortunately it has been since October 2006 since I enjoyed a pint of the real deal so I won't have any idea how mine compares.

Plan to use the Wyeast West Yorkshire yeast on a Brown/mild come December as well. Has anybody recultured this yeast using Jim's method? If so any issues like people report with Wyeast 1968?

Looking forward to this one.

I suspect my propane burner and my usual 90 minute boil gives a bit more carmelizing effect than others as my beers tend to turn out a little darker than anticipated.

[monk]

Incidentally, a homebrew supply company is selling this ingredient kit to clone TTL:

* 0.25 lbs. Simpson's Extra Dark Crystal
* 0.25 lbs. Belgian Biscuit Malt
* 3 lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup
* 1 lbs. Pilsen Dry Malt Extract
* 1 lbs. Priming Sugar

Boil Additions
* 1 oz. Fuggle (60 min)
* 1 oz. Kent Goldings (45 min)
* 1 oz. Styrian Goldings (45 min)

* Wyeast #1469 West Yorkshire Ale. Optimum temperature: 64-72° F.

That looks a little suspect to me, considering that all accounts report lots of hop aroma. The pound of priming sugar seems off to me as well. Comments?

[monk]

Wow. It's amazing how little prompting it took to get me on board with this TTL party brew. A couple people mention that they're brewing it, and BANG! I'm on the website ordering yeast. I need to look at the recipes again, but I think I'll try just Golden Promise and carmelization. What is the typical hop schedule like?

[mysterio]

Hah, monk, I ended up ordering the West Yorkshire yeast after reading this thread too. Since when do you live in Cypress by the way??

Hops... I would suggest using maybe a mix of Fuggles/Styrians or Goldings/Styrians, aslong as you have plenty of IBUs (enough to balance and to give a noticeable bitterness), and a pile of Styrians at the end of the boil.

IL... I would get at least 3 or 4 litres on the hob and boil it until it's like toffee! I've not split this yeast yet with Jims method but I probably will, even though i've got about half a dozen different yeasts in the fridge and about 30 little bottles...

[Grot]

Incidentally, a homebrew supply company is selling this ingredient kit to clone TTL:

* 0.25 lbs. Simpson's Extra Dark Crystal
* 0.25 lbs. Belgian Biscuit Malt
* 3 lbs. Pilsen Malt Syrup
* 1 lbs. Pilsen Dry Malt Extract
* 1 lbs. Priming Sugar

Boil Additions
* 1 oz. Fuggle (60 min)
* 1 oz. Kent Goldings (45 min)
* 1 oz. Styrian Goldings (45 min)

* Wyeast #1469 West Yorkshire Ale. Optimum temperature: 64-72° F.

That looks a little suspect to me, considering that all accounts report lots of hop aroma. The pound of priming sugar seems off to me as well. Comments?

Here's the grain version from the same shop:
* 6 lbs. Golden Promise
* 0.25 lbs. Extra Dark Crystal Malt

Boil Additions


* 1 lbs. Corn Sugar (60 min)
* 1 oz. Fuggle (60 min)
* 1 oz. Kent Goldings (45 min)
* 1 oz. Styrian Goldings (45 min)

I don't see the need for sugar at all and I agree about lack of aroma with that schedule.

I'm going to try caramelizing and see how it goes. Mysterio's hops schedule looks good. I've got some low alpha Styrians on hand that should be good for a flameout addition. I was planning to brew tomorrow but I don't think my yeast has shipped yet

[steve_flack]

I've got a nice starter of the yeast in my fridge ready to go for the weekend