The Scottish Brew that must not be named!

[NickK]

Well I started my Scottish Brew that mush not be named last weekend. I left it well alone and yesterday I took it's gravity and tasted it.
The taste is superb (although a little sweet at the moment). It's still fermenting away audibly and the current gravity is 1032.. ouch! That's going to pack a hard punch!

Recipe for ~20 litres, 25.5 IBU, ~6.6 ABV (probably a little more due to starter)

Starter
- WYeast #1728
- ~200g of honey

Grain bill
4.700 kg Golden Promise
1.190 kg Maris Otter
0.500 kg Amber Malt
0.368 kg Carapils
0.020 kg Acid Malt

Hops
90m 35g 4.8% Mount Hood
30m 15g 4.8% Mount Hood
15m 10g 4.8% Mount Hood

So I'll keep an eye on it but I hope it drops down hard to 1014/16 or so. So this may need another 4 days given time for the yeast to tidy up after itself.
Then I have stage 2 - ageing after adding American White Oak cubes it's to sit for quite some time - possibly up to 60 days before moving to bottles. I could leave it in the keg and I may end up dry hopping another amount of Mount Hood. Still unsure if the yeast will remain viable for that period of time to allow for carbonisation in the bottles. Instead I may opt for moving the beer to a new keg for forced pressurisation (although I may try a bottling a couple).

[colonial]

What was the OG?

[mysterio]

You made the starter with honey ?

[NickK]

OG - I actually forgot to measure Taste-wise it's extremely good but already has a kick of about 3-4% I'm guessing.

The starter was made by boiling up mineral water and then adding organic Acacia honey. I'm aware of the anti-bacterial properties of Honey but it's worth trying things that go against conventional thought in my view. It's also a test of the idea for the Bere brew.

If my other experimental Golden Promise brew is anything to go by (without honey) this will be a golden, honey, malt, with a subtle bitterness and then a stunning overtones of the hops.

I'm severely tempted to run this as a normal beer without oaking it - the taste at this stage is *that* good.

[mysterio]

The theory (which i've never tested) is that using simple sugars in a starter is bad practice, because the yeast never learn to produce the enzymes that they need to break down the more complex malt sugars, and hence can become 'lazy' and underattenuate an all-malt wort. If it tastes good, then its a moot point, but if it does underattenuate then that might be something to look at.

[Valkyrie]

I've never had a problem brewing Braggot (Mead Ale - malt and honey and meadowsweet) so the honey should work. It does take longer, and you may need to give it a bit of a wakeup stir near the end. The last Braggot I made took 16 days to ferment out using a mead yeast, for a 5.8% brew. Very good Christmas Ale it was too.

[NickK]

That would perhaps explain the slow fermentation. I'm keeping a daily eye on it. The brew is actually doing it's first fermentation in a KK so the slow CO2 production doesn't seem to be causing a problem. I can add a CO2 cartridge to provide a CO2 layer if required.

Question is - does the slower fermentation make for a better ale?

[mysterio]

No, generally a quicker fermentation is indicative of healthy yeast. Slow, sluggish fermentations tend not to produce the best beers (although not always).

Make sure you don't have any top pressure on that KK, CO2 pressure will inhibit the yeast.

Valkyrie> the free amino nitrogen from the malt will have helped the fermentation in your Braggot, this is why yeast nutrients are recommended for regular mead musts (honey has very little FAN)

[NickK]

No, generally a quicker fermentation is indicative of healthy yeast. Slow, sluggish fermentations tend not to produce the best beers (although not always).

Make sure you don't have any top pressure on that KK, CO2 pressure will inhibit the yeast.

I see. It should also be noted that this is a high ABV so I'm expecting it to be a bit longer in the FV (hence the KK to keep the CO2 layer better).

The keg top isn't on tight and doesn't exhibit any hiss of decompression when unscrewed.

[Valkyrie]

Valkyrie> the free amino nitrogen from the malt will have helped the fermentation in your Braggot, this is why yeast nutrients are recommended for regular mead musts (honey has very little FAN)

Actually only some people recommend yeast nutrient for mead, mainly those who are taking part in competitions or want a quick fermentation using ale or wine yeast. It is recommended by the American BJCB/Meadfest and thus appears in American books where most recipes use wine yeast...

In France, artisanal Hydromel (traditional mead) may not have YN added or it cannot be classed as artisanal, and it must be fermented with mead yeast. Commercial Hydromel made with champagne yeast, may have YN added and is almost always fizzy.

I use honey extracted from comb from my own bees, without the use of heat. Nutrients are not destroyed by the commercial heat processing and thus give a superior honey. If I use honey in a recipe, be it mead, cyser, melomel or braggot, I do not use YN. I have been successfully brewing those for the past 15 years, with absolutely no problems at all. I would recommend those using honey in recipes to buy it from a local beekeeper.

Cider and mead yeasts take longer to ferment out than beer yeasts.

So really it depends on personal taste, each to their own choice.

That does sound like it will be a tasty beer though.

[NickK]

Just an update on this beer.. with photos of course.

Well due to a leaking second fermentation tap (and the cheeky beer stealing goblin) I was down to 3/4 of the volume I'd set off with. So based on that I decided to step in with an emergency bottling of 12x0.5l bottles - syphoned directly from the SV after it had been de-pressurised.

The beer has had 2 weeks in FV, 1 week+a couple of days in SV with the oak cubes. So, although I was going to leave it till next weekend I thought rather than risk no beer I'd move it to bottles for the remainder of it's ageing.

The beer is interesting - resembling a whisky with a spicy taste under pinned by the heat of alcohol! Gravity is 1012 so it's got some body (think of swilling a whisky and seeing the liquid stick to the sides) with a deep copper hue. It's not crystal clear but for such an amount of Golden Promise this is extremely nice.

First of all what does it look like in the glass!


Next, excuse my abuse of picture size but I wanted the colour depth on this.. tipping the glass with a white pad under it you can see the slow graduation with depth. Please excuse the noise in the image - the camera didn't have the flash on.
click here for picture (wider than forum allows)

So after 1 week of fermentation it was 1032, now it's 1012. So I think it's at it's planned 6.4-6.6%.

In short I think given 12-14 days of secondary, this would give it a little more depth to the taste. Currently is smooth and very drinkable but needed a little longer with the oak chips.