AG#9 Elderberry Stout ???

Tequilla6 · Post by **Tequilla6** » Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:25 am

Hi,

Having just finished picking a few kilo's of Elderberries for the wife Jam making the thought of using some as a flavouring and aroma component for an elderberry beer sound interesting. I guess I have the idea because of the wonderful way in which my AG#5 Sambucus (Elderflower Beer) turned out to be a real hit both with me and the Cambridge Beer meet and the fact that the smell of elderberries cooking on the stove last night was just divine. My leanings are to do a Stout as I have tried a Bramble Stout which was very successful but looking at the forum the only elderberry recipes I can find are for the standard Elderberry wine.

Has anyone tried a beer recipe using Elderberries that they would recommend or am I going to be charging valiantly into the unknown with this one and letting everyone know the pitfalls and issues I face?

Guess its time for a wider internet search

Cheers

Tequilla6 · Post by **Tequilla6** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:25 am

I have managed to find some elderberry stouts but with mixed reviews. The first one seems to be a Scottish Stout from the makers of Froach and Kelpie and this American one from the Otto's Pub and Brewery. From reading the reviews it seem that Otto's comes out on top of the taste testing and there is a note that it uses a Dry Stout base so maybe this is the way to go. I also have found a recipe for the Bramble stout base from the Burton Bridge which says its based on their Top Dog Stout plus Blackberries.

So If we decide that the base is going to be a stout. I have three stouts that have used berries in the recipe two of which are Elderberry.

So a decision on the base recipe has to be either the Top Dog Stout or a clone Dry Irish Stout. The thought of using an Oatmeal stout or something with more complexity would in my opinion mask the Elderberry flavour which I want to come through.
The Top Dog Stout recipe I have uses Chocolate malt and no Roasted Barley but online seem to point more towards using a dry stout, I presume dry because of the use of more than the usual unmalted roasted barley etc in the recipe, with the bitterness around about the 40-45 EBU. I am considering one of the sample Beer Smith recipes for a dry stout clone with a 70-20-10% grain bill ratio. I now need to make my mind up as I have powered up the stir plate and the yeast starter is sitting on top swirling nicely. So brewday is now set for tomorrow.

jubby · Post by **jubby** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 11:47 am

I have an old hand written extract recipe that I used in the 80's to brew an elderberry beer. I remember it well as it turned out to be a bit of a disaster, as I used fresh brewery yeast that was infected. The beer used 2kg malt extract, mixed with the liquor strained from 1kg of elderberries (can use apricots or prunes) that had been soaked overnight in 2 gallons of boiling water. The quantity was increased to 4 1/4 gallons and boiled for 1/2 hour with 1kg brown sugar, cooled and pitched. No mash and no hops ( a real 'real ale')

It was a nice dark ruby colour and very clear, but unfortunately it tasted gak!

You might be able to use something from that though

Tequilla6 · Post by **Tequilla6** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 12:41 pm

For someone who keeps saying that he has only just started on this AG lark you have an awful lot of experience of brews. Thanks for the tips. My first thoughts were to use a max of 500gms of Elderberry so I get more of a beer and less of a wine. To move this forward I've emailed the US brewer and asked for some advice. Not something I have ever done before but I thought in this instance it was worth a go.

jubby · Post by **jubby** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:35 pm

For someone who keeps saying that he has only just started on this AG lark you have an awful lot of experience of brews.

Brewing during the 1980's was a bit different, i don't count that. I brewed some serious drain cleaner back then

John F · Post by **John F** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:06 pm

I've got an early 90's copy of the Durden Park book which has an unhopped elderberry beer called Ebulum. I made it a couple of years back and it was interesting - tasted more like wine (perhaps a gamay or cabernet franc) than beer. It would be interesting to make it again with other autumn fruit like damsons or brambles. It was nothing like the Ebulum that the makers of Fraoch, Grozet, Alba and Kelpie make (or used to make), which was more like a strong stout (and was incredibly good).

Tequilla6 · Post by **Tequilla6** » Wed Sep 09, 2009 10:44 pm

Well that's interesting to know. I have a recipe for Ebulon by Maude Grieve around 1931 from my book Sacred and Herbal Healing Beers which I found an absolutely fascinating read. I have also just ordered the Durden Park book which I understand in the 4th publication and am also looking forward to having a read of. Seems Jubby is doing one of their IPA recipes and it was him that lead me to check out their website and order the book from them.

I have since had a reply from the Brewer in the States about their Elderberry Stout and he agrees I should stick with my suggested Dry Irish Stout recipe ( Sealed by his quote "Elderberries are a tough flavor to balance and stout is the best beer to accompany") and that the ratio of Elderberries to wort should be around 30-45gms of Elderberry per litre of wort and that to preserve the flavour profile of the Elderberry that they should be added post boil which will be enough to pasteurise them. This means I need about a Kilo of destalked Elderberry for my standard 25L brew length. With this in mind I am now ready to formulate the recipe. The only variable I do not know as yet is how much the Elderberry will add to the OG of the final brew. Do I care at this stage? Not really I will just bring the recipes OG down a little to compensate but I guess we could generate a potential maximum based on a sugar addition of 1KG to the recipe. If I use this figure I should not be too far off and can adjust at post boil of required. But it maybe nice to do a good strong beer for a change.

Recipe to be posted tomorrow I guess.

Cheers

John F · Post by **John F** » Fri Sep 11, 2009 9:51 am

I have the latest Durden Park book. It has none of the medieval/unhopped/gruit/spiced ales that the older copy has. I don't know why they've got rid of them. I'd been hoping they would be revised and updated when I ordered it.

wilfh · Post by **wilfh** » Fri Apr 18, 2014 9:10 am

I know this is really old but anyone know his this turned out?

donny70 · Post by **donny70** » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:46 pm

I'm just about to put one down as a 12l brew with pressings from 1kg of elderberries. I will let you know how it turns out. I'm planning to get the abv to 7.5% @ around 50ibu.

wilfh · Post by **wilfh** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 4:07 pm

Good stuff. Good luck and I look forward to gearing how you get on

donny70 · Post by **donny70** » Mon Apr 21, 2014 9:51 pm

[quote="donny70"]I'm just about to put one down as a 12l brew with pressings from 1kg of elderberries. I will let you know how it turns out. I'm planning to get the abv to 7.5% @ around 50ibu.[/quote]

Well I misweighed the grain and that with slightly higher efficiency has pushed the abv to 9. Oops. I'll have to water it down a tad...

donny70 · Post by **donny70** » Sat May 10, 2014 1:48 pm

This tastes smashing just from the FV after 3 weeks. The fruit really shines through. Another 2 in secondary and i'll bottle.

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