Next Fuller's ESB attempt!

[monk]

Hello all! I've been lurking for some time now, due to my inability to imbibe, but I haven't been lazy! In the last few weeks I've brewed an Amarillo Pale Ale, a Turbo Cider with White Labs cider yeast, and a small, simple extract brew with lots of Styrian Goldings.

My next attempt will be for something along the lines of Fuller's ESB. British beers are so expensive here, I really need to start brewing some good clones. I tried a Black Sheep Holy Grail, but it cost $5 for a pint bottle...

Anyway, I love Fuller's ESB and here's my dilemma: I have 50 lbs. of American 2-row (NOT Maris Otter) but I still want to make a good ESB...
what can I add to bring it closer to a Fuller's style?

Here's the recipe so far, subject to revisions, of course:

19L

4.5kg american 2-row
340g crystal 75L
57g Amber malt
57g Aromatic malt
.45kg corn sugar

Target 90 min
Challenger 45 min
Northern Brewer 20 min
Kent Goldings 10/0 min

OG 1.055
IBU 35

Let me know what you think, por favor. Thanks, guys.

Monk

[monk]

Thanks for the tips and the recipe, Daab.

As for the Aromatic, it was part of the "CloneBrews" recipe for Fuller's ESB. I wonder if they weren't trying to add a bit more malty flavor to make up for the lack of it in American base malts? I don't know. I've heard american 2 row is a bit blander than Maris otter and the like.

I do have some flaked maize, so I could emulate either of the recipes you posted. Hmmm. They both look good.

For the bitter you brewed, which Safale did you use? I'm guessing the 04, as it's meant for bitters and the like. I'm suprised along with you...04 usually drops out quickly and completely. I'm usually shaking it up a bit, in fact. My amarillo ale is still cloudy in the primary (15 days), but that was US-56 Chico. That stuff is notorious for not dropping.

[mysterio]

I like aromatic malt to boost the maltiness in some recipes like Oktoberfest. I don't think it would be a bad idea to compensate for the lack of maris otter - although MO is our standard malt and i've never tried American 2-row.

IMO the flaked maize is pretty essential in this recipe if you're wanting to get close to Fullers ESB. Monk, i'm not sure about this but if you check the all grain window at the side of the recipe in clone brews I think it mentions flaked maize (it can only be used when you're mashing).

Edit: Normans recipe below looks good, especially the yeast which I think is Fullers primary yeast strain.

[norman]

Real Ale Almanac 25 litre batch OG 1054 35 EBU

OPTIC PALE MALT 5153 gms
CRYSTAL MALT 174 gms
FLAKED MAIZE 400gms

HOPS boil time 90 minutes
TARGET 38 gms

Add 20 gms of a mix of CHALLENGER NORTHDOWN and GOLDINGS last 15 minutes

YEAST Wyeast 1968 ESB london ale yeast

[norman]

I forgot to add Fullers use brewers caramel,one and a half teasponns would be needed for 25 litres.

[Frothy]

Have you seen this thread?
http://jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... 78&start=0
I too am planning an ESB clone. The hop bills are so different so I plan to mash a double batch & split the boil between 2 hopping schedules. One from the Daab recipe and the other from the Clone Brews recipe. Afraid I havent got around to it yet though so can't be more helpful.

Be interested to know how you get on.
Frothy

[monk]

Thanks guys. I forgot to add the flaked corn to my list when I first posted. I intend to include half a pound of it in the mash. For yeast, I've got white labs 002 English ale. Is that the same as London ESB? Maybe it isn't. I've used 002 several times lately and got very different results. It's always clear, but sometimes really fruity.

[shiny beast]

If you want to clone any Fullers beers then I would recommend using their yeast. It's available from both Wyeast and Whitelabs.

[monk]

Have you seen this thread?
http://jimsbeerkit.co.uk/forum/viewtopi ... 78&start=0
I too am planning an ESB clone. The hop bills are so different so I plan to mash a double batch & split the boil between 2 hopping schedules. One from the Daab recipe and the other from the Clone Brews recipe. Afraid I havent got around to it yet though so can't be more helpful.

Be interested to know how you get on.
Frothy

Yes Frothy, I noticed the big difference in hop schedules too. Mainly, that several recipes call for quite a bit of finishing hops in the 10-0 min range, while others only prescribe a 15 minute dosing. That would make a big difference, I'd think. I can't remember what F's ESB tastes like draft, and have never had it cask, but the bottles I'm familiar with. Unfortunately, I seem to detect differences between bottles. Probably this has to do with the bottles making a rather long trip to get to my house, but some have quite a bit of hop flavor/aroma, others don't. ?? I suppose I should decide what I'd like to clone before I can figure out how to do it, eh?

Monk

[BitterTed]

Monk, if you're trying to make an ESB with American 2-row, I'd suggest adding either Biscuit or Victory malt, or toasting some malt yourself. Just using 2 row and aromatic, you wont get the flavor that you'd get using Marris Otter or the like. You could get by without using aromatic if you choose, but you'd have to mash at a higher temp to get the maltiness you will need. Oh, for the biscuit or victory, Im sure that .25 lb would be enough in a 5 gal batch!!

[BigEd]

Thanks guys. I forgot to add the flaked corn to my list when I first posted. I intend to include half a pound of it in the mash. For yeast, I've got white labs 002 English ale. Is that the same as London ESB? Maybe it isn't. I've used 002 several times lately and got very different results. It's always clear, but sometimes really fruity.

Yes, White Lab 002 and Wyeast 1968 are purported to be from the Fuller's brewery. To address your earlier malt question IMO a good British malt is a requirement to brew a Fuller's clone recipe or any decent attempt at a UK beer. Adding some biscuit or aromatic to domestic (North American) pale malt will put lipstick on the pig by adding a bit of malt aroma but it's not going to cover up the deficiencies of that malt in brewing a British-style ale. I say bite the bullet and buy some UK pale malt. You and your beer will both be rewarded. If you are in California B3 carries Simson's Golden Promise and Crisp Maris-Otter, either one would be a fine base for that recipe. Cheers!

[steve_flack]

Biscuit or Victory malt, or toasting some malt yourself. Just using 2 row and aromatic, you wont get the flavor that you'd get using Marris Otter or the like.

As an aside, I often see ingredients like Victory and Special Roast malt in American recipes. We don't get those malts (at least by those names) here. Do they have UK/Euro equivalents. Is special roast the same as Amber?

[monk]

Biscuit or Victory malt, or toasting some malt yourself. Just using 2 row and aromatic, you wont get the flavor that you'd get using Marris Otter or the like.

As an aside, I often see ingredients like Victory and Special Roast malt in American recipes. We don't get those malts (at least by those names) here. Do they have UK/Euro equivalents. Is special roast the same as Amber?

I have used special roast and victory, as well as amber malt, and have found them all to be fairly similar. Perhaps it's just my untrained palate, but I think they don't differ much. In the US, there appears to be some regional preference for either victory or special roast. I see victory in lots of recipes by breweries and homebrewers out west, and more often s.r. in the midwest and east coast. Maybe I'm seeing patterns where they don't exist, but it seems to be the case at least.

monk

[monk]

To address your earlier malt question IMO a good British malt is a requirement to brew a Fuller's clone recipe or any decent attempt at a UK beer. Adding some biscuit or aromatic to domestic (North American) pale malt will put lipstick on the pig by adding a bit of malt aroma but it's not going to cover up the deficiencies of that malt in brewing a British-style ale. I say bite the bullet and buy some UK pale malt. You and your beer will both be rewarded.

I'm afraid you might be right about this. This is actually my first experience using american 2 row! In the past I've always used British pale malt for everything (all three or four recipes, that is), including my Sierra Nevada PA clone and as a partial mash in american amber ales. It always turned out okay. The reverse may not be true, however, as you opine. Perhaps I'll wait on the ESB, or just go for it with American and see what happens. Because logistically, there are 50 pounds of american 2 row malt sitting in my chest freezer, crying out to be put to God's intended use.

monk

[shiny beast]

You could use what ever grains you like within reason. The Fullers yeast is very assertive, and contributes alot to the overall flavour. It's no coincidence that all their beers taste similar. Pale, crystal and flaiked maize are the ones, according to most books. Goldings and Fuggles for the hops.
The yeast is often described as being highly flocculent, and may 'need constant rousing'. I've never had any problems getting it to attenuate, and it drops out to leave a crystal clear pint.