A beautifully crafted,golden bitter from felinfoel brewery Dyfed South Wales.Full malt and vinous fruit in mouth;deep complex finish with hops,fruit and faint toffe notes
Welsh cask conditioned pale ale
pale malt - 4150g (79%)
crystal malt - 160g (3%)
torrified wheat - 530g (10%)
in the boiler
invert cane sugar - 425g (8%)
challenger - 20g (start of boil)
bramling cross - 12g (start of boil)
whitbread goldings - 12g (start of boil)
whitbread goldings - 10g (last 15 min)
mash liquor - 12lt
mash temp - 66
og - 1048
fg - 1009
alc - 5.3%
bitterness - 25 ebu
final volume 23lt
Felinfoel Double Dragon
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BigEd
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DRB
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maltman14
A few years ago I was at the open day at the Felinfoel brewery we did the tour what an experience 
Its not done anymore for safety reasons 
The only hops that were there were two enormous sacks one challenger and one goldings I was informed that they were the only hops used and when I questioned how long do sacks like that last the answer was we have a lab to work out the efficiency left in the hops so we just add more to make up for the loss with storage .
All the old steam winding gear is still in position but allas the steam engine is now defunct .
They supplied me with yeast and I must addmit after a dozen or so pints I was well oiled .Hic
THANKS FEELINFOUL .
Lovely Day
Kelvin
Its not done anymore for safety reasons The only hops that were there were two enormous sacks one challenger and one goldings I was informed that they were the only hops used and when I questioned how long do sacks like that last the answer was we have a lab to work out the efficiency left in the hops so we just add more to make up for the loss with storage .
All the old steam winding gear is still in position but allas the steam engine is now defunct .
They supplied me with yeast and I must addmit after a dozen or so pints I was well oiled .Hic
THANKS FEELINFOUL .
Lovely Day
Kelvin
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BigEd
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delboy
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BigEd
I'm racking this brew right now and the early report is very positive. Great malty flavor followed by some crispness from the wheat and the hop bitterness is just right. I'll report back when this reaches the keg.delboy wrote:Be sure and let us know what it tastes like, im very partial to this and could be tempted to have a go at it.
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BigEd
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G-rat
I know this thread is months old and dead but I just wanted to say that I fished it up and brewed my own version of this beer.
The malts are all the same I just did 3 EKG additions to really get some aroma out of it. I have to say that the malt bill is so simple and so impressive that i'm stunned! Fermented with WL Burton Ale Yeast...this might be the best beer I've brewed.
Cheers from Texas
The malts are all the same I just did 3 EKG additions to really get some aroma out of it. I have to say that the malt bill is so simple and so impressive that i'm stunned! Fermented with WL Burton Ale Yeast...this might be the best beer I've brewed.
Cheers from Texas
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G-rat
Thanks!DaaB wrote:
Welcome to the forum btw
I also dry hopped this bad boy with a half ounce of fuggles whole leaf.
I posted last night after I tasted it and I was so happy that it tasted at least close to felinfoel but really just a god british Special Bitter. I love British bitter and I never thought that I could brew one this good.
You guys are massively helpful!
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Graham
I assume so, because DRB said so in his second post. I haven't actually checked though. Most British beer recipes are much of a muchness anyway, all very similar, two or three ingredients plus hops. Some only one ingredient plus hops, such as TT Landlord, and that is very highly respected.DaaB wrote:We try to help if we can. btw I think that recipe came from Brew Your Own Real Ales At Home
I must agree that some American recipes have so many ingredients that they read like a homebrew shop price list, and that leaves someone like me a little bemused. I have to wonder what they all contribute, but each to their own methods I suppose.
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Barley Water
- Under the Table
- Posts: 1429
- Joined: Tue May 22, 2007 8:35 pm
- Location: Dallas, Texas
Mr. Graham, I have a copy of the aformentioned book and was checking it out for future projects just last night as it turns out. I know that the book was written before the golden age of homebrewing so getting specific yeast strains was problematic. Is it a fair assumption that this is why no specific strains were recommended with each recipie?
I am interested in the Fuller's London Pride recipie but sadly have never actually sampled the original (because I live in Texas) so I have a couple of quick questions. Is it fair to assume that the brewery employs the same yeast for all their offerings (the same stuff you can now purchase from either White Labs or Wyeast)? Are you aware of anything ususual that Fullers does during production of that beer which would cause the yeast to behave differently and throw off any ususual flavors? Also, with regard to the crystal malt in the formulation, what color rating would you suggest (I don't know what the deal is over in the UK but nobody ever seems to specify the color rating of the specialty malts used)?
One last general question, I notice many of the recipies call for a hell of a lot of sugar. To tell you the truth, I am a little shy about adding that much to a beer with fairly low original gravity (at least by U.S. homebrew standards). It seems to me that if you are making say a mild with an original gravity of around 1.035 wouldn't adding a bunch of sugar make for a very thin beer? My natural inclination would be to formulate with a large amount of crysal malt and mash very hot to try and maximize body. I must be missing something here, can you set me right?
By the way, I really appreciate what you guys did for the hobby back in the dark days. Most U.S. homebrewers in those days relied on books like yours to show us the light, thanks.
I am interested in the Fuller's London Pride recipie but sadly have never actually sampled the original (because I live in Texas) so I have a couple of quick questions. Is it fair to assume that the brewery employs the same yeast for all their offerings (the same stuff you can now purchase from either White Labs or Wyeast)? Are you aware of anything ususual that Fullers does during production of that beer which would cause the yeast to behave differently and throw off any ususual flavors? Also, with regard to the crystal malt in the formulation, what color rating would you suggest (I don't know what the deal is over in the UK but nobody ever seems to specify the color rating of the specialty malts used)?
One last general question, I notice many of the recipies call for a hell of a lot of sugar. To tell you the truth, I am a little shy about adding that much to a beer with fairly low original gravity (at least by U.S. homebrew standards). It seems to me that if you are making say a mild with an original gravity of around 1.035 wouldn't adding a bunch of sugar make for a very thin beer? My natural inclination would be to formulate with a large amount of crysal malt and mash very hot to try and maximize body. I must be missing something here, can you set me right?
By the way, I really appreciate what you guys did for the hobby back in the dark days. Most U.S. homebrewers in those days relied on books like yours to show us the light, thanks.
Drinking:Saison (in bottles), Belgian Dubbel (in bottles), Oud Bruin (in bottles), Olde Ale (in bottles),
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
Abbey Triple (in bottles), Munich Helles, Best Bitter (TT Landlord clone), English IPA
Conditioning: Traditional bock bier, CAP
Fermenting: Munich Dunkel
Next up: Bitter (London Pride like), ESB
So many beers to make, so little time (and cold storage space)
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Graham
Oh dear, Barley Water - that's one hell of a challenge and I'm not sure that I know all the answers.
Yes, you are right that the yeasts available to us in those days were pretty awful. In the days before my very first book I cultured twelve packaged yeasts brought from home brewing shops, in a proper microbiological laboratory. Of the twelve, only four were not infected at source (i.e. out of the packet) and only two were true top-workers. For those Brits listening it was Gervin that came out top, but then Gerry Fowles was still alive then (might still be for all I know).
Even so, in these more enlightened days, I would be reluctant to specify a yeast for any recipe. If I go down to my local brewery and get a polystyrene cup of yeast, and pitch it into my wort - it explodes and within minutes (say 45), there is the rocky head, and the beer clears well and turns out true to type (after a lot longer of course). I have not found a packaged yeast (not that I have looked very far) that performs that well.
I have a (redundant) yeast propagator in my garage. Anybody that has a copy of my European recipe book will notice frequent mentions of "Zymopure". That was my answer to the yeast problem in Britain, and that was why the propagator was built. Even though the yeast was propagated on hopped wort, not a sugar solution, what went in to seed it was not the same as that that came out. The cell shape under a microscope was different. It performed well, very well, and after second generation (that is a second brew using recovered yeast from the first brew), it was fully restored and its cell shape was back to normal. But second-generation perfect wasn't good enough for me and Zymopure never hit an unsuspecting public for that reason.
So in answer to one of your questions, yes Fullers use the same yeast in all their beers. But no, for reasons that I give above, I doubt very much if it is the same stuff that you can purchase from White Labs or Wyeast.
The only thing that Fuller's do that is unusual is that they throw a bucketful of yeast (a big bucket mind you) from the previous brew into the copper (boil) of the current brew. In reality they do this this to get rid of their surplus yeast, but it must act as a yeast nutrient and have positive effects on yeast performance. Whether it has positive flavour effects I really do not know.
Crystal malt in Britain, without further qualification, is deemed to have a colour of 150 EBC, (about half of that in Lovibond).
I too am squeamish about excessive sugar in beer. If you have any of my freelance recipes, the sugar is minimal - rarely more than 10%, if any at all. In my clone recipes, if sugar is there it is because there is sugar in the brewer's recipe, or at least I have felt that sugar MUST be in their recipe. Even so, it is usually invert sugar and not crystalline cane sugar that I specify in my later books.
About the worst British beer for sugar is "Old Speckled Hen" - about 20% ordinary cane sugar. I DO NOT suffer from hangovers - I can be so pissed that I can be crawling home, but after 7 hours' sleep I am right as rain and do not suffer a headache. Except when I've been on Old Speckled Hen; that is the only beer that gives me a hangover. It's only 5% abv, not excessively strong. It must be the cane-sugar content.
Although there may be the odd typographical cock-up in my books, the recipes do turn out true to type. I know that I am in danger of blowing my own trumpet a little too much here, but if you find sugar in a Wheeler recipe it will not be to the detriment of the overall beer. There are plenty of people on this forum that will give you a definite Yae or Nay to that assertion.
It depends upon what book, and what edition, you have, but generally speaking you can trust them. The major complaint is that my recipes are over hopped, but if I hadn't specified in the text that I used a standard, linear 20% hop utilisation efficiency, I seriously doubt if many people would have noticed. In fact, nobody did notice until Tinseth, Gareth, and Promash popped their collective heads up. It is my chosen utilisation efficiency that most people pick up on (quite rightly; it is on the low side), but not (usually) the taste of the beer.
Anyway, hope that helps.
Yes, you are right that the yeasts available to us in those days were pretty awful. In the days before my very first book I cultured twelve packaged yeasts brought from home brewing shops, in a proper microbiological laboratory. Of the twelve, only four were not infected at source (i.e. out of the packet) and only two were true top-workers. For those Brits listening it was Gervin that came out top, but then Gerry Fowles was still alive then (might still be for all I know).
Even so, in these more enlightened days, I would be reluctant to specify a yeast for any recipe. If I go down to my local brewery and get a polystyrene cup of yeast, and pitch it into my wort - it explodes and within minutes (say 45), there is the rocky head, and the beer clears well and turns out true to type (after a lot longer of course). I have not found a packaged yeast (not that I have looked very far) that performs that well.
I have a (redundant) yeast propagator in my garage. Anybody that has a copy of my European recipe book will notice frequent mentions of "Zymopure". That was my answer to the yeast problem in Britain, and that was why the propagator was built. Even though the yeast was propagated on hopped wort, not a sugar solution, what went in to seed it was not the same as that that came out. The cell shape under a microscope was different. It performed well, very well, and after second generation (that is a second brew using recovered yeast from the first brew), it was fully restored and its cell shape was back to normal. But second-generation perfect wasn't good enough for me and Zymopure never hit an unsuspecting public for that reason.
So in answer to one of your questions, yes Fullers use the same yeast in all their beers. But no, for reasons that I give above, I doubt very much if it is the same stuff that you can purchase from White Labs or Wyeast.
The only thing that Fuller's do that is unusual is that they throw a bucketful of yeast (a big bucket mind you) from the previous brew into the copper (boil) of the current brew. In reality they do this this to get rid of their surplus yeast, but it must act as a yeast nutrient and have positive effects on yeast performance. Whether it has positive flavour effects I really do not know.
Crystal malt in Britain, without further qualification, is deemed to have a colour of 150 EBC, (about half of that in Lovibond).
I too am squeamish about excessive sugar in beer. If you have any of my freelance recipes, the sugar is minimal - rarely more than 10%, if any at all. In my clone recipes, if sugar is there it is because there is sugar in the brewer's recipe, or at least I have felt that sugar MUST be in their recipe. Even so, it is usually invert sugar and not crystalline cane sugar that I specify in my later books.
About the worst British beer for sugar is "Old Speckled Hen" - about 20% ordinary cane sugar. I DO NOT suffer from hangovers - I can be so pissed that I can be crawling home, but after 7 hours' sleep I am right as rain and do not suffer a headache. Except when I've been on Old Speckled Hen; that is the only beer that gives me a hangover. It's only 5% abv, not excessively strong. It must be the cane-sugar content.
Although there may be the odd typographical cock-up in my books, the recipes do turn out true to type. I know that I am in danger of blowing my own trumpet a little too much here, but if you find sugar in a Wheeler recipe it will not be to the detriment of the overall beer. There are plenty of people on this forum that will give you a definite Yae or Nay to that assertion.
It depends upon what book, and what edition, you have, but generally speaking you can trust them. The major complaint is that my recipes are over hopped, but if I hadn't specified in the text that I used a standard, linear 20% hop utilisation efficiency, I seriously doubt if many people would have noticed. In fact, nobody did notice until Tinseth, Gareth, and Promash popped their collective heads up. It is my chosen utilisation efficiency that most people pick up on (quite rightly; it is on the low side), but not (usually) the taste of the beer.
Anyway, hope that helps.