Lager plan - with pics

[greenxpaddy]

Ok, we've arrived at winter and it was always my plan to do a lager in the garage as temps should be in the right region.

Never done a lager before and was going to go for a Budweiser Budvar clone going for wlp800 Czech pilsner yeast.

Can anyone give me some pointers for a good lager....timescales...temperatures. I reckon I could maintain a temperature of 8c in the garage without the need for cooling. I could warm to 20c for a diacetyl rest and then pop outside for a crash cool prior to bottling.

I would be doing a decoction mash.

would 6 weeks be enough at 8c?

Thanks in advance

[Frothy]

Had a go at this a while back - surprised myself when it came up in some Google results the other day. Also I notice Mr barley water back then too. May help, I can dig out my notes if they can be any assistance?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7271

Youl want some good soft water, height pitching rates and I think the best weapon for lagering will be tasting the beer every now and then to check on the diacetyl. I believe modern breweries achieve their so called lagering within 10days.

[Barley Water]

I am currently fermenting the last of four lagers in a row (Helles, Maibock, CAP and last but not least a Munich Dunkel) and I did all four of them at 48F. I've got the Helles on tap and am very pleased with the way it came out, very clean fermentation (haven't done extensive taste testing on the rest yet but I'll get to it). Although your garage may get cold enough, you also need to do something to keep the temperature from yo yoing around, you want a steady 48-50F all the time. By the way, if you get just a touch of diacetyl in a Bohemian pilsner it's ok, the style standard has just a hint, buy some and see if you don't agree (although you want to avoid the dreaded "butter popcorn beer"). Also for that particular style, you want extremely soft water otherwise it's going to mess up the flavor you should get from the hops. For the CAP, I cut my normal water with 50% distilled as I have moderately hard water here with both temporary as well as permenant hardness, it will be interesting to see how that works out. If you have never done a lager before, you will notice that it takes almost twice as long to ferment in primary, I give all mine 2 weeks. As far as lagering, the higher the O.G., the more lagering is required. I would say 4 weeks for a 1.050 beer and at least twice that for the heavier stuff. In my particular case, I just don't have room to lager stuff forever so I just do the best I can. Since I am trying to get ready for a contest, the whole trick with me is to manage the stock well and keep a steady and high consumption rate going.

My standard advice to lager brewers (and this comes from screwing up myself) is to make sure to pitch a ton of yeast, almost a gallon starter for a 5 gallon batch (pour off the liquid and pitch only the slurry at the bottom). You might get away with just dumping a tube of yeast in the wort with an ale (although generally I don't recommend it with certain exceptions) but that will not work with lagers, the beer will likely be under attenuated and perhaps also not ferment very cleanly. Also, the reason I like the make back to back lagers is because I can avoid making up big starters for the second beer, just use the the yeast off the first effort, it saves money and gets the pitch count up there where you want it. So, in that vein I would recommend making an Munich Dunkel after doing the pils, you'll just love that bready, malty beer. Anyhow it's all about managing fermentation, check out the thoughts of the great Jamil Z, he is obsesive about it and that's why his beers wins metals.

[greenxpaddy]

Had a go at this a while back - surprised myself when it came up in some Google results the other day. Also I notice Mr barley water back then too. May help, I can dig out my notes if they can be any assistance?

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=7271

Youl want some good soft water, height pitching rates and I think the best weapon for lagering will be tasting the beer every now and then to check on the diacetyl. I believe modern breweries achieve their so called lagering within 10days.

I have the soft water alright, but not that soft so probably won't need an acid rest. I just been delivered some Bohemian Pils Floor Malted 2-Row so will use that.

I think it was your post off google that got me lined up for this in the first place!

PS - I can easily control 10-12C at the mo for primary, its the lagering where it may yo-yo around a bit. Hoping that is less important

[greenxpaddy]

Ok, here we go. I'm going to do a 35L in prep for the 100L. WLP800 for both.

First one, no decoctions. Will do a protein rest though and top up to saccharifaction mash temp. (What do you reckon is best for a lager 67C or more or less?) Going for some floral hoppiness and a bitter edge

Bohemian Floral Pilsener
Date:
Gyle Number:
Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Bohemian Floor Malted 2-Row Pils Malt 4 EBC 11 lbs. 10.9 oz 5300 grams 77.9%
Carapils Malt 4 EBC 3 lbs. 4.9 oz 1500 grams 22.1%


Hop Variety Type Alpha Time lb: oz grams Ratio
Celeia Whole 4 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 2.1 oz 60 grams 37.5%
Hallertauer Hersbrucker Whole 2.9 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 2.1 oz 60 grams 37.5%
Celeia Whole 4 % 15 mins 0 lbs. 1.4 oz 40 grams 25%


Final Volume: 35 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.011
Alcohol Content: 4.9% ABV
Total Liquor: 46.6 Litres
Mash Liquor: 17 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 85 %
Bitterness: 34.9 EBU
Colour: 7 EBC


Then this one I'll do protein rest then decoct to mash and then decoct to mash out. This one I'm keeping not so bitter so that the caramelisation from the decoction hopefully will come through more. Keeping the hops simple so they do not dominate

Its called snowflake pilsener because I have a feeling its going to have snow on the top of it somewhere during the lagering phase - it will be sat outside the patio door. Just got to make sure 1) the dog doesn't wee up the side of it! 2)It doesn't freeze solid

Snowflake Pilsner
Date:
Gyle Number:
Fermentable Colour lb: oz Grams Ratio
Bohemian Floor Malted 2-Row Pils Malt EBC 44 lbs. 1.5 oz 20000 grams 100%


Hop Variety Type Alpha Time lb: oz grams Ratio
Saaz Whole 3.3 % 90 mins 0 lbs. 10.5 oz 300 grams 85.7%
Saaz Whole 3.3 % 5 mins 0 lbs. 1.8 oz 50 grams 14.3%


Final Volume: 100 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.051
Final Gravity: 1.012
Alcohol Content: 5.1% ABV
Total Liquor: 130 Litres
Mash Liquor: 50 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 85 %
Bitterness: 25 EBU
Colour: 7 EBC

So 2 weeks 12C for primary fermentation, raise to 20C for 3 days diacetyl rest, then cool and transfer to secondary ( I do have to move it off the yeast cake don't I?). Move outside for 6-8 weeks. Then prime and bottle.

[greenxpaddy]

Bohemian Floral pilsener

Day 8 from 1.051 down to 1.027. Held steady throughout at 12.1c to 12.4c

Surprised it had a kreusen so high given it's a bottom fermenter....Also no rotten egg smell that you expect.

Will give it a couple more days then up the temp for the diacetyl rest.

[Manx Guy]

Hi!
Just saw this thread, good luck to you!
I made two passable lagers last winter using a similar method...
However ofter fermentation and a diacetyl rest at 15C for 48 hours I transfered to a budget pressure barrel and put it in my beer fridge at 5C after 3 days this went down to 2C.

The Vienna had 4 weeks lagering which was plenty and the Oktoberfest (Paler but not as pale as a pilsner) had 10 weeks follwing a similar fermentation...

Both are pretty good, no noticable diacetyl or off flavours... Although the Oktoberfest is starting show a few oxidation (presumably from bottling?) issues but you have to hunt for them and its not apparent in evry bottle...

Good luck!


Guy

[greenxpaddy]

Latest,

yesterday morning down to 1.018 so decided to warm for DR. Two stage. Up to 16C. Then 12 hrs later up to 18C.

Q. Do I need to reach FG exactly before lagering? Or can you lager with a few gravity points still to go?

Lucky old me. From tomorrow for two weeks temperatures are going to be perfect for lagering. Bingo!

[Barley Water]

I think that the best lager beer is pretty well attenuated so my advice would be to pull the stuff into the house for a couple of days diacetyl rest before letting it lager. Not only will you get rid of any unwanted diacetyl, but you will also allow the yeast to get more active and take care of any stray sugars floating around in the beer. Hopefully everything is going as planned, it's very satisfying to make a good lager as of course it's a bit harder than doing most ales. Your technique will almost surely improve as you can get just a bit sloppy with ales and most times get away with it but not so with lagers. Good luck.

[greenxpaddy]

Won't it attenuate fully but very slowly while lagering, even at 3-4C?

[barney]

Paddy get you Diacetyl rest finished we are due a week of one. Perfect Luck.

[greenxpaddy]

It was 1.013 last night two points off so I put it out this morning to chill. It got to 3C by teatime but the kreusen had still not fallen. I have decided to leave it out in the primary for a week to get as much yeast settled out as possible as I will be reusing it for a double sized brew. Then I will rack to secondary for further lagering

I have wrapped it up very well and am hoping that 20mm of foam insulation is going to protect it from freezing. Got to do my calculations though. Will obviously depend how cold things get!

I know it doesn;t look like it but there is a mango chutney barrel in there somewhere!



EDIT - now done the maths, With a temp differential fluctuating between 3-6C beer/atmospheric temp the beer could lose 3C over the course of 1-2days. So it could still freeze if temperatures were persistently below freezing. Given tthe forecasted temperatures for the next couple of days I'm going to bring it into the garage where it will be more like 5-6C

[greenxpaddy]

Out again today!

The insulation is more of a buffer than a solution. Which should prevent freezing and or rising above 7C given current day and night temps

[greenxpaddy]

This weekend: Sunday i will brew Snowflake pilsner with a decoction mash.

I will transfer Bohemian Pilsner to secondary and repitch onto the yeast cake split between two 60L vessels same day.

I'll need to shift the Belgian single out of the fermenting cupboard and place somewhere upstairs to finish. I'm hoping it will be nearly done by then (9 days) so some minor temp fluctuation won't hurt it so long as I keep it up near 20C. That one has been nudged up over the first 5 days from 17C and is now sitting at steady 20.1 to .3C Again I will only rack this one once i am ready to repitch to Dubbel and Trippel so yeast stays as healthy as possible under the beer.

Biggest problem i find for brewing output is the FV cupboard can hold two FV's at a time.

[jonnyt]

You must drink an awful lot then if two FVs on the go isn't enough!