Smoked Weizen

[Lugsy]

I tried a couple of superb Aecht Schlenkerla Rauchbiers on Saturday - I'd had the Marzen before but then I tried the Weizen and was really impressed, so much so that I fancy giving one a go. I have no idea what should go in it apart from Rauchmalt and wheat, it's quite dark so I think some Carafa Special is in order and it seemed to have a sweet maltiness so maybe some Munich and CaraMunich? I have to say I'd had a good few beers by the time I got around to trying a bottle of this the other night so I'm not entirely sure of all the flavours Maybe I should go back and have a bottle or two on a clearer head to get my palate round it properly! Anyway, here's my provisional grain bill:

Rauchmalt 35%
Wheat malt 50%
Carafa Special 2%
Caramunich III 5%
Munich 8%

OG 1.055
68EBC

Hop with bittering additions of Hallertau Mittlefruh to 15-20IBU, nothing late

Yeast WLP300, fermented at 20C to get a mix of banana and clove.

What do we think?

[barney]

Very adventurous, never tried brewing with it but looks an awful lot of smoked malt

[Capn Ahab]

That looks bang on bar the fermentation temp. Wlp300 will give loads of banana at that temp and maybe even bubblegum - not good. I made a fairly similar weizenbock viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48172 though the smoked malt is at about 20 % I think. I did a ferulic acid rest in the mash to help create more clove phenols and then fermented it at about 16.5 - 17 C for a couple of weeks. I then had to rouse it and raise the temp to reach FG.

It's pretty good. The smoke is in the background and adds complexity rather than dominates. My only complaint is that it is a bit sweet, so I will lower the caramunich when I get round to V2.

[Lugsy]

The first time I used WLP300 I fermented at 16C and it was almost overpoweringly clovey, I want a bit of banana in this one so I thought 20C would be better (I've seen people using it up to 24C so thought I'd go for the middle range) but if that's too warm I'm happy to drop it a couple of degrees. There might be a little too much caramunich too, maybe I'll drop a percent or two

[Lugsy]

I think I've finalised my recipe for this at last, I've made up a 1l starter of WLP300 which I'll split between this and another hefe. By only using a small starter I'm hoping to stress the yeast and get it to throw off some good flavours

So, here's the recipe:

Grains:
Wheat malt (Fawcetts) 2000g 50%
Rauch malt (Weyermann) 2500g 40%
Munich malt (Weyermann) 320g 6.4%
Special B (Dingemans) 150g 3%
Carafa Special II 30g 0.6%

Hops:
Tettnang 50g 90 minutes

I'll dough in at 43C for a ferulic acid rest, step infusion to 50C for a protein rest and then two decoctions for saccharification at 65C and mash out at 75C. I've swapped the CaraMunich from the original recipe for Special B as I want some dried fruit flavour in there.

This should give me 23 litres at 1.056 based on an 85% efficiency with a colour of 39 EBC and a bitterness of 15 EBU. Efficiency could be way off though, the last hefe I made with this mash schedule came in at 95% efficiency so my 5.2% beer is nearer 6% - not that I'm complaining, it's bloody tasty

I'll try and pitch as close to 13C as I can get with the temperature of the ground water at the moment and then let it rise to 17C for a week or so, after that I'll rack to secondary to wake the yeast back up and raise to 20C to finish off.

This is getting brewed on Saturday so if anyone has any comments/suggestions/caveats you'd better be quick with them!

Cheers boys

[Capn Ahab]

First comment: Whoa! That's a lot of smoked malt!

Special B could be interesting, but I found my weizenbock way too sweet with about 3 % caramunich in it, and I think any crystal type might cause the same problem. My V2.0 will be all about the base of wheat + pils/smoke/munich + choc or pale choc for colour adjustment, and better fermentability.

I recently found out that Danstar Munich is the same as WLP300 (Weihenstephan 68) and judging by my mate's beer it gives just as good results, so no need to make up slants or any of that gubbins in future. Happy daze.

[Bradsbrew]

I had a Rauchbier at the Schlenkerla brewery in Bamberg and was introduced to a whole new type of beer.. smoky bacon beer

[jmc]

I'd be interested in hear how you get on.

I tried a smoked porter in March and only used 8% Rauch malt.
See Topic: Smoked Porter Help Needed

Porter was very nice, but smokiness was dissapointing. Just a hint of it.

You may want to reduce Rauch malt, but I wouldn't go too low.

Maybe Rob at TMM who sells the Rauch malt can help?

[Lugsy]

That's a good idea, I'll ask Rob for some advice

I've been reading up on the Schlenkerla beers and I think they use all smoked malts for their beers, I can't get hold of smoked wheat malt so I'm using as much Rauch malt as I can fit in there while still keeping 50% wheat and some darker grains. This is a bit of a blind experiment to be honest, there isn't a lot of information out there on smoked wheat beers so I'll just have to go for it and live with the consequences I think. If it's a bit heavy on the smoke I can always brew a hefe and then blend them at the drinking stage, it's a great excuse for brewing another hefe anyway

[jmc]

Good luck with your brew and remember to tell us how you get on.

[leedsbrew]

I've just had a bottle of this and it is outstanding! I will defenitly be taking elements of this for my own recipe mate! The decoctions shine trough! Malty, loads of body! Just great! How long was your protein rest? Think it might have been a bit too long as the head retention is good but may e been killed a little bit by an excessive protien rest!

Bloody awesome in summary

[Lugsy]

Cheers Neil, glad you enjoyed it

The recipe I used in the end is here if you want to use any of it.

Yes, the protein rest was a bit long to be honest - I drew a portion off at the end of the rest to decoct to the sacc. rest, this took a fair while so I'm guessing the protein rest was over an hour. I'm not really sure how to avoid this problem short of putting the whole of the mash into a big pan and raising the temperature up to 65C - but this would mean I miss one of the decoctions. Do you know what temperature the protein rest stops at? I suppose I could do another infusion to get to above the protein rest temperature and then decoct to sacc. temperature.

[leedsbrew]

Yeah that's quite long for a protien rest! Maybe 15 minutes isgonna be optimal for a weisse! The upper end or a protien rest is 55 so you could dough in for ferulic acid, decoct up to 55, infusion up to sac then decoct for mash out? Just a thought! To be homest mate apart from the head retention it was flawless!