150g Cascade not much in 23l ?

[techtone]

I have gradually been increasing amount of hops, particularly in pale ales but despite using more than ever before, my most recent two batches have been very lacking in hop flavour/aroma despite lots of late hops and hop teas. That is using 150g of cascade per batch, kept in the freezer, foil packed, freshly opened. The two batches are quite young in the keg, still clearing but I imagine the hop flavour/aroma will only decrease with time?

The packets of hops have quite different alpha % but not noticed any difference between the two. I do not get much aroma when I open the packets, but then again they are out of the freezer.

2011 Harvest 7.9% alpha
2010 Harvest 5.9% alpha

Am I just expecting too much from 150g in 23l? I am sure I have used less hops in the past and got more flavour/aroma.

Has anyone else noticed this recently. Any suggestions?? Only other change is to Bairds pale malt which has reduced my efficiency a lot but would it affect hop flavour too?

I am wondering whether to try a different hop supplier????


EDIT; Thought I would add (having read a neighbouring thread) that I use Nottingham yeast, as I like the lower temperature profile and have YET to be convinced that differing yeast can make a huge difference at least regarding hop flavour???

[Skittlebrau]

I take it these are leaf hops? Pellets are meant to be the thing, or you can try the hop puree idea.

[floydmeddler]

If you steep 150g at the 70c-80c mark after the boil, you'll get a major hop hit. I steep for 30 mins, stirring every 5 mins. Obviously use more Cascade to bitter to around 40 - 50IBU. Should be a nice balance.

[floydmeddler]

Just to add, I use S05 for hoppy beers. Works for me. Have never used Nottingham so can't compare.

Also... I use The Malt Miller. His hops are superb. Green and sticky!

[gnutz2]

Just to confer with floyd.

Give them a long steep at 80c or less and make sure the're fresh and sticky, 150g should givea a big hit.

Also, wait long enough for the beer to condition, at a agues, 2-3 weeks for a very hoppy beer

[floydmeddler]

Just to confer with floyd.

Give them a long steep at 80c or less and make sure the're fresh and sticky, 150g should givea a big hit.

Yup

Also, wait long enough for the beer to condition, at a agues, 2-3 weeks for a very hoppy beer

2-3 weeks is not long enough. More like 8-10 from brew day to beer glass. Here's what I do for beers with this amount of hops. Primary for 4 weeks then to secondary with gelatine for another 3. I then keg in 5L mini kegs or bottle. 1 week later it's ready. Tastes best 1-2 weeks after that again, so 9- 10 weeks from brew day. However, this can be sped up if you bottle/mini keg earlier; when transferring to secondary, I syphon off a a few 2L bottle's worth and these are ready 2 weeks later, so 6 weeks from brew day.

[floydmeddler]

Here's my house IPA. Have brewed it 5 times now. It's a bit of a hop bomb! viewtopic.php?f=24&t=40023&hilit=+triple

Recently I've been getting my hops from The Maltmiller. Great quality.

[WishboneBrewery]

I think Nottingham or US-05 would be fine for a hop-forward brew, I use US-05 regularly myself.
Cascade is a hop that, apparently, degrades faster during storage so the 2010 Harvest may well be lacking some of what the 2011 still has, the 80c steep gives me all the flavour and aroma I need in my beers, though i also like a Dry hopped beer but don't expect the exact same flavour & aroma with Dry Hops as you would in the boil, they may compliment it and add the higher flavour/Aroma notes that you want but it will be different.

I find all my hop-forward beers are at their peak approx 2-3 weeks from bottling, after 7-10 days in the fermenter... though its each to his or her own tastes, have taster bottles as you go and decide for yourself which best suits.

[Skittlebrau]

Here's my house IPA. Have brewed it 5 times now. It's a bit of a hop bomb! viewtopic.php?f=24&t=40023&hilit=+triple

Recently I've been getting my hops from The Maltmiller. Great quality.

Did you ever do it with the Munich?

[coatesg]

"It's all about the dry hop" (to quote an un-named brewer). Whack 50g in keg (in 5 gallons) as a dry hop as seen what happens to the aroma...!

(I'm unsure on the 80C theory - either add a dump load towards the end of the boil (eg hopbursting US pale/IPA) and cool as quick as poss, or dry hop it - the quicker yeast is in and fermenting the better IMHO)

[floydmeddler]

Here's my house IPA. Have brewed it 5 times now. It's a bit of a hop bomb! viewtopic.php?f=24&t=40023&hilit=+triple

Recently I've been getting my hops from The Maltmiller. Great quality.

Did you ever do it with the Munich?

I've done an IPA with Munich, but put too much in. Wasn't a great success. Planning on brewing a red hop bomb soon though which uses around 30% of the grain bill. Have all the ingredients for this one. Could even do it this wknd...

[floydmeddler]

I think Nottingham or US-05 would be fine for a hop-forward brew, I use US-05 regularly myself.
Cascade is a hop that, apparently, degrades faster during storage so the 2010 Harvest may well be lacking some of what the 2011 still has, the 80c steep gives me all the flavour and aroma I need in my beers, though i also like a Dry hopped beer but don't expect the exact same flavour & aroma with Dry Hops as you would in the boil, they may compliment it and add the higher flavour/Aroma notes that you want but it will be different.

I find all my hop-forward beers are at their peak approx 2-3 weeks from bottling, after 7-10 days in the fermenter... though its each to his or her own tastes, have taster bottles as you go and decide for yourself which best suits.

Hey pdtnc. This is interesting. I'm always reluctant to bottle after such a short time though as it's never clear enough - especially with S05. Do you gelatine? If so, what's your process? Also, what kind of starting gravity do you usually have for a hop bomb?

Cheers

[WishboneBrewery]

I suppose 5% upwards is a good starting point for something really hoppy, but I've been trying to make hoppy beers down at 3.6% too.
As far as bottling goes, I just keep things simple, US-05 in the bottle will be cleared in approx one week... I don't use gelatine or any finings.