Baby Steps Pilsner.....

[Pinto]

Figured it was an appropriate name for my first steps into the world of all grain....

Due to splashing out on a nice (pair of) £6 mash tuns courtesy of Tescos, I now have the equipment set up ready to attempt my first basic all grain and i've decided that I want to try a Pilsner style lager.

I've come up with a basic recipe whilst playing with brew mate and i'd love some feedback from the more experienced folks here - be gentle with me

Basic Lager - BabySteps Pils (Bohemian Pilsener) 16l Brew Length

Original Gravity (OG): 1.050 (°P): 12.4
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol (ABV): 4.91 %
Colour (SRM): 3.3 (EBC): 6.4
Bitterness (IBU): 36.9 (Average)

90% Pilsner - 3.1kg
10% Wheat Malt 0.35kg

3.1 g/L Saaz (3.1% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil)
1.6 g/L Saaz (3.1% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil)
1.2 g/L Saaz (3.1% Alpha) @ 15 Minutes (Boil)


Single step Infusion at 66°C for 60 Minutes. Boil for 60 Minutes

Fermented at 12°C with Saflager S-23


Recipe Generated with BrewMate

I chose Wheat malt instead of Carapils due to the limitations of my LHBS stock (along with the yeast choice)- I cant be bothered with an online order - and from reading around it appears to be an acceptable substitute. Its also a 16l brew length due to the limitations of my boiler and Lauter tun (both 19l Stainless vessels) - dont want to risk a boil over and if I stuff it, I only need to force 32 bottles down...

Comment away....( asbestos undies on.... )

[zgoda]

I understand you want nice head and lacing with this wheat? If you can do step mash with your setup, I'd skip it and make some short rest at 55c, like 10 mins, then proceed normally at 66c.

Other than that the yeast is rather fruity, Saflager w34/70 is much better.

[Froggit]

Im no expert, very far from it but personally i would lower the earlier hops a little, from bitter experience i try to keep my IBU ratio below 0.50!

[Pinto]

Thanks for the advice the ratio's are based on a "style guide" i found and brewmates reccomendations - might knock them back tho to be safe - can always up em in the next brew ( as frankly, i dont know what i like on that front yet looking forwards to the experimentation)

[Barley Water]

Humm...first all grain brew and doing a pilsner, you certainly like to jump into the deep end of the pool. First of all, what is your water like? You will want very soft water otherwise you will not get the ph low enough in the mashtun plus the hops will come off very sharp. Also, when dealing with pils malt you should boil for 90 minutes otherwise you risk having alot of DMS in the beer (you know, canned corn flavor). I also agree with a previous poster, more hops at the end, in fact I would be tempted to dry hop the beer (that's what I do with the CAP I make). Also, you might want to do a protien rest for 15 minutes or so, that way you can avoid chill haze (plus you are adding wheat which could potentially make that problem worse). Can't personally comment on dry yeast but make sure you pitch a butt-load and make sure the wort is fermentation temperature so things don't get fruity on you plus oxigenate like hell. Lagers are more difficult to make than ales (although certainly not impossible) and light lagers are even harder just because there is nothing to hide mistakes behind. They will make you a better brewer though because it's so easy to make swill. Anyway, good luck, let us know how it works out.

[Pinto]

Humm...first all grain brew and doing a pilsner, you certainly like to jump into the deep end of the pool. First of all, what is your water like? You will want very soft water otherwise you will not get the ph low enough in the mashtun plus the hops will come off very sharp. Also, when dealing with pils malt you should boil for 90 minutes otherwise you risk having alot of DMS in the beer (you know, canned corn flavor). I also agree with a previous poster, more hops at the end, in fact I would be tempted to dry hop the beer (that's what I do with the CAP I make). Also, you might want to do a protien rest for 15 minutes or so, that way you can avoid chill haze (plus you are adding wheat which could potentially make that problem worse). Can't personally comment on dry yeast but make sure you pitch a butt-load and make sure the wort is fermentation temperature so things don't get fruity on you plus oxigenate like hell. Lagers are more difficult to make than ales (although certainly not impossible) and light lagers are even harder just because there is nothing to hide mistakes behind. They will make you a better brewer though because it's so easy to make swill. Anyway, good luck, let us know how it works out.

Now THATS advice thanks !

I chose a pilsener due to it's simple grain bill, but I can see the added complexities you mentioned and TBH... i am liking the sound of the challenge.

My area water report from southern water puts my water at the softer end of medium hardness (96ppm mg/l CaCO3) - other stats are :

Ca - 36mg/l
Mg - <15 ug/l
Chlorine (Free) - 0.18mg/l
Copper - <0.001 mg/l
Fluoride - 0.055mg/l
Iron - <11ug/l
Lead - <1ug/l
Maganese - <3 ug/l
Nitrate - 6.84 mg/l

pH not available but I can determine this myself when I get to it. Of course, I could circumvent this and brew with distilled water (I have 25l of it in the shed ) With an extended boil to 90 mins, I'll need to lower or move the hop additions later, and i'd not considered dry hopping - what sort quantities do you think i'd be needing ?

[zgoda]

Re: dms in beer... Most of contemporary pilsner malts have very low level of smm (dms precursor). Certainly you'd not find it in Weyermann's, Castle Malting or Best Malz. If the smm level is increased, this may be indication of poor malting process. Standard 60 minute boil is perfectly sufficient in case of normal (not floor malted) pilsner malt. Traditional malts have higher level of protein and benefit from longer boil to drop more protein break.

Most of dms in home brewed beers come from infections anyway.

[Capn Ahab]

Re: dms in beer... Most of contemporary pilsner malts have very low level of smm (dms precursor). Certainly you'd not find it in Weyermann's, Castle Malting or Best Malz. If the smm level is increased, this may be indication of poor malting process. Standard 60 minute boil is perfectly sufficient in case of normal (not floor malted) pilsner malt. Traditional malts have higher level of protein and benefit from longer boil to drop more protein break.

Most of dms in home brewed beers come from infections anyway.

That's really interesting if true. I always do a 90 min boil with pils malt to avoid dms, but might try the next one with 60.

I was under the impression that dms is purely a malt byproduct though and nothing to do with fermentation, thus not linked to infections. Do you know which infections throw dms? I know some strains of pediococcus throw lots of diacetyl.

[Wolfy]

I chose a pilsener due to it's simple grain bill, but I can see the added complexities you mentioned and TBH... i am liking the sound of the challenge.

My area water report from southern water puts my water at the softer end of medium hardness (96ppm mg/l CaCO3) - other stats are :

Ca - 36mg/l
Mg - <15 ug/l
Chlorine (Free) - 0.18mg/l
Copper - <0.001 mg/l
Fluoride - 0.055mg/l
Iron - <11ug/l
Lead - <1ug/l
Maganese - <3 ug/l
Nitrate - 6.84 mg/l

pH not available but I can determine this myself when I get to it. Of course, I could circumvent this and brew with distilled water (I have 25l of it in the shed ) With an extended boil to 90 mins, I'll need to lower or move the hop additions later, and i'd not considered dry hopping - what sort quantities do you think i'd be needing ?

An English or American Ale would be a much easier start to an all-grain brewing careeer, so many less things to be concerned about.
A pilsner might have very few ingredients, but that is why it's so difficult to make well, there is nowhere and nothing to hide any flaws, mistakes or other issues that you might come across.
With an English Ale you can hide many 'flaws' behind the yeast-character and maltyness, hoppy American Ales can also mask many 'errors' however with a crisp, clean, dry pils there is nowhere to hide any 'mistakes'.

Knowing the Sulfate level of your water is also useful, that way you can adjust the Chloride to Sulfate ratio as appropriate for the beer you are making.
However, looking at the information you provided, you should be OK to brew the Pils without having to add brewing salts or make many changes at all. If you wanted to add a little acid it might get the pH closer to what is 'ideal' but even without it the mash should progress without any problems - if you did a stepped or decoction mash (you did say you wanted a challenge) then it would be even better.

Certainly you'd not find it in Weyermann's

Many would argue that you would certainly would find it in Weyrmann's Floor Malted Bohieman Pilsner malt - but that is a specialty product and essentially designed that way.

[zgoda]

Certainly you'd not find it in Weyermann's

Many would argue that you would certainly would find it in Weyrmann's Floor Malted Bohieman Pilsner malt - but that is a specialty product and essentially designed that way.

That's why I mentioned floor malts separately.

Standard pilsner malts are made to another, more contemporary standards.

Anyway, Weyermann's Bohemian Floor malt is not made by Weyermann plant in Bamberg but by Martin in Czech Rep.

[Wolfy]

That's why I mentioned floor malts separately.

Anyway, Weyermann's Bohemian Floor malt is not made by Weyermann plant in Bamberg but by Martin in Czech Rep.

So you did, missed that bit, point taken.

Bamberg and Hassfurt if I'm not mistaken.

[Barley Water]

Well, if you are going to try a Bohemian pils your water is too hard. That's not to say you can't make a pils with it, but the style classic uses very soft water and harder water will affect the way the hops come across in the beer. I have harder water also over here also and I get around ph problems by using the 5.2 buffer stuff. The hop issue can also be worked around to some extent by dialing back the bittering charge and being very selective about the hops you do use. The other thing you can do is cut your water with distilled water from the grocery store (it is very cheap over here). On the other hand, if you want to use the harder water you might try targeting a German pils. You will notice with a beer like Warsteiner for instance that the bitterness is "sharper" than what you get with say Pilsner Urequel (spelling?). By the way, you might think I am splitting hairs with all this but I compete alot so unless I want to constantly get my butt kicked I need to pay attention to this stuff. One other thing, make sure to get very good attenuaton, you want the beer to taste "crisp" and not "flabby" which is what you will get if you don't dry the beer out really well.

By the way, your water like mine is custom made for darker beers. That is why I have had such good luck with Munich Dunkels, Porters etc.

[zgoda]

I have hard water here too, and hardness is of worst kind, mostly carbonic. I found lighter German beers (helles, pils) come out better than Czech style pilsners, perhaps because of softier hop profile. I'm using Perle and Spalt Select as main bittering hops, sometimes Magnum. Finish with Tettnanger or Mittelfruh.

[Barley Water]

Yeah, I have the same experience. I think part of it is that German water is medium hard so you end up doing better if you are in our situation than doing a Czech beer. Also, many German beers are not really all that bitter so problems with hops don't come into play as much. I also use noble hops alot for German beers and I favor bittering with Magnum just because it's a high alpha hop which seems to work pretty well and since you use less there is less hop gunk in the bottom of the boiler.