Can i make a authenticish Munich helles with pale malt?

[Mckelvie20]

Bought a whole load of pale malt and want to use it, but got mates asking for lager after our trip to Munich this year could i make a convincing lager with pale malt instead of lager malt?

if so anyone got a good recipe or all round tips its my first time making a lager?

[seymour]

Here's what the BJCP style guidelines say:

5A. Maibock/Helles Bock
Ingredients: Base of Pils and/or Vienna malt with some Munich malt to add character (although much less than in a traditional bock). No non-malt adjuncts. Noble hops. Soft water preferred so as to avoid harshness. Clean lager yeast.

There is definitely a little something added by pils malt, but if you include some Vienna and Munich and get everything else right, I doubt most people would know the difference in your finished beer. Perhaps it's just me, but I get faint vanilla notes from classic pilasters. If you do too, you could consider including a few vanilla beans or drops of vanilla extract to compensate. It's a thought. If nothing else, you'll end up with a non-true-to-style Helles but a very nice English Amber Lager of your own invention.

[Mckelvie20]

Thanks yeah you're probably right aslong as it tastes good who cares if it's authentic might make some with pale malt this winter then try a more authentic version next winter.

By the way Saint Louis you a Rams fan by any chance?

[seymour]

...By the way Saint Louis you a Rams fan by any chance?

As much as the next guy, I suppose, but not a huge one. They were just over there for a game, weren't they?

[Mckelvie20]

Yeah there kind of my adopted team starting watching NFL around the greatest show on turf time been downhill from there they've been mostly really good to watch this year but, I always go to the London game as it's the only one we get.

[Mckelvie20]

Anyone got a good recipe for a lager where i can substitute pale ale malt for lager malt?

also i have been looking into lager yeasts good ones are rather expensive, i read on another form that you can make extra starter and save some of the yeast for use in other batches how would i go about this?

[zgoda]

Dry Saflager W34/70 is good enough for 95% of breweries around the globe.

[seymour]

Dry Saflager W34/70 is good enough for 95% of breweries around the globe.

+1, zgoda beat me to it.

Here's our recipe:

SEYMOUR-MCKELVIE20 HELLES BOCK

We're cheating by substituting regular Pale Ale malt for Pils, so it's all the more important to use German Noble hops, a large lager yeast population, and a long, cold fermentation.

All-grain recipe

6 US Gallons = 5 Imperial Gallons = 22.7 Liters

MALTBILL:
53.3% = 8 lbs = 3.63 kg, Two-row Pale Ale Malt
26.7% = 4 lbs = 1.81 kg, Vienna Malt
20% = 3 lbs = 1.36 kg, Munich Malt

MASH at 152°F/67°C for 90 minutes or until converted.

GERMAN NOBLE HOPS:
2 oz = 57 g, Hallertauer or Tettnanger, 90 min
1 oz = 28 g, Hallertauer or Tettnanger, 15 min

BOIL 90 minutes, add Irish Moss near the end. Use a wort chiller to quickly drop the temperature and the sediment for as clear and neutral a lager as possible.

YEAST:
2 packs of Saflager W-34/70. Ferment 46-55°F/8-13°C if possible.

STATS (assuming 75% mash efficiency and 75% yeast attenuation):
OG: 1.067
FG: 1.015
ABV: 6.7%
IBU: 28
COLOUR: 8° SRM = 16° EBC

PRIME bottles/cask with ¾ cup white cane sugar

CONDITION bottles 2 weeks at fermentation temperature, then 8 weeks as cool as possible.

[Mckelvie20]

Sounds great thank very much i'll let you know how it turns out.

[seymour]

Bump.

So, did you brew a Munich Helles? If so, how's it turning out?

[Mckelvie20]

Hey yeah made a small batch of 6 bottles there lagering just now going to open one in a couple of months so ill let you know how it tastes smelt very nice when bottling so think i'm on to a winner. thinking of making some american ales so thought you might be the man to ask never tasted one as there hard to get here but thinking of making a these two
2.66 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 73.4 %
0.40 kg Corn, Flaked (2.6 EBC) Grain 2 11.1 %
0.23 kg Cara-Pils/Dextrine (3.9 EBC) Grain 3 6.2 %
0.14 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 4 3.7 %
0.20 kg Sugar, Table (Sucrose) (2.0 EBC) Sugar 5 5.5 %
14.00 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 6 16.2 IBUs
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 10.0 min Hop 7 6.4 IBUs
28.00 g Cascade [5.50 %] - Boil 0.0 min
with 2 oz of lemon zest added at 5 mins
going to use us-05


Type: All Grain Date: 02/01/2013
Batch Size (fermenter): 23.00 l Brewer: Sandy Mckelvie
Boil Size: 28.92 l Asst Brewer:
Boil Time: 60 min Equipment: Pot and Cooler ( 5 Gal/19 L) - All Grain
End of Boil Volume 26.87 l Brewhouse Efficiency: 72.00 %
Final Bottling Volume: 21.49 l Est Mash Efficiency 80.9 %
Fermentation: Ale, Two Stage Taste Rating(out of 50): 30.0
Taste Notes:
Ingredients


Ingredients
Amt Name Type # %/IBU
4.21 kg Pale Malt (2 Row) UK (5.9 EBC) Grain 1 99.5 %
0.01 kg Caramel/Crystal Malt - 60L (118.2 EBC) Grain 2 0.2 %
0.01 kg Munich Malt (17.7 EBC) Grain 3 0.2 %
8.19 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 55.0 min Hop 4 8.9 IBUs
8.19 g Centennial [10.00 %] - Boil 35.0 min Hop 5 7.6 IBUs
8.19 g Cascade [7.40 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 4.1 IBUs
8.19 g Cascade [7.40 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 1.3 IBUs

same yeast what do you think?

[Rookie]

Bought a whole load of pale malt and want to use it, but got mates asking for lager after our trip to Munich this year could i make a convincing lager with pale malt instead of lager malt?

Are your mates buying the ingredients for this lager they want you to brew? If not I wouldn't spend a lot of time worrying about it.

[seymour]

Yes, those will both come out true-to-style American Pale Ale. You oughta be able to find Sierra Nevada Pale Ale, Stone, Rogue, Goose Island, or something to taste though, right?

[Mckelvie20]

Yeah suppose I could right enough was thinking more of an American brown ale would be hard to get. any other American craft styles you could recommend ?

[seymour]

You know me: I say try everything, learn a little about it, and it'll all make you a better brewer. I can't afford to move to the UK, Germany or Belgium and enroll in an advanced brewery institute, nor stop everything to apprentice at a full-scale brewery. But I can afford to sample lots of beers from around the world and fine-tune my palate.

Anchor Steam is good. It's the "California Common" style, one or our only true originals, which is fermented using a lager yeast at ale temps. But seriously, just taste anything you can get your hands on. Ratebeer is useful so you can record your impressions, and break it down statistically as you go, notice trends, etc...