recipe for sunday. user up porter. any problems?

[alfie09]

user up porter 40 litres

Fermentable Ratio

Pale Malt 5740 grams 65.9%

Brown Malt 870 grams 10%

Amber Malt 835 grams 9.6%

Chocolate Malt 500 grams 5.8%

Black Malt 330 grams 3.8%

Wheat Malt 435 grams 5%


Hop Variety

Columbus (Tomahawk) 90min 23 grams 12.4%

admiral Pellet 90min 23 grams 12.4%

Fuggle Whole 10min 140 grams 75.3%


Final Volume: 40 Litres
Original Gravity: 1.049
Final Gravity: 1.014
Alcohol Content: 4.5% ABV
Total Liquor: 58.1 Litres
Mash Liquor: 21.8 Litres
Mash Efficiency: 77 %
Bitterness: 34.9157351015118 EBU
Colour: 225 EBC

20litres barelled and 20 litres bottled. using us-05 and notty

[alfie09]

any ideas? does it look ok?

[alfie09]

ha still no reply. dont know whether to weigh out the grains. 20 views but no comments

[sunny_jimbob]

Here you go, here's a reply

I've only done 3 dark beers so far; 1 I missed the OG totally, 1 got infected and 1 has only just gone in the bottle so I'm not the most experienced advisor, but FWIW it looks good to me. I've not used Columbus or Admiral, but the IBUs look good.

[far9410]

I cant see a problem with it, only limited experience with this type of beer, I dont think the hop variety is of utmost importance with this style. I'm sure it'll be great

[seymour]

Sorry, I missed the original post.

40 Litres, eh? Go you! I'd love to see a pic of your setup in the forthcoming Brewday thread. Overall, this recipe looks really tasty. I'd expect a BIG, full-bodied, bready, toasty/melanoidin-y, highly complex dark ale. Considering all those specialty roasted malts, this reminds me of a historic XX/Best Mild/Strong Mild. Needless to say, my kinda beer.

If you're afraid of it being too thick, you could add some cane sugar to thin the body and increase the alcohol a bit. Flaked Maize (Corn Flakes breakfast cereal will work in a pinch) is another historically-accurate option.

You know me, I always recommend adding a big handful of oats for improved head retention and a silky/creamy mouthfeel, especially with Big Brown Beer like this.

I think the hops are fine, too. Do you appreciate late-stage Fuggles? I do, but some people find their aroma a little musty/unpleasant ("armpits" has come up more than once, as you may recall.) If you got 'em, you could always substitute Goldings for safe measure.

Lastly, please, please don't use US-05/Chico. Show some national pride and use only true English ale yeast strain(s) for this beauty of a brew.

[orlando]

My only gripe would be the hop choice, you don't need a lot of bittering in Porters and you certainly wouldn't want any piney, grapefruity, citrusy hops distracting you from the malts. I would stick with just Fuggles, I don't get the armpits that Seymour refers to, although he is usually reliable in this area. No for me English hops and I certainly do agree with him on the yeast, something with an English flavour to it is fine. In my last one (25l) I had 70g (3.5% aa) at 90 and 23g at 10 IBU 31) and it has turned out superbly.

[seymour]

My only gripe would be the hop choice, you don't need a lot of bittering in Porters and you certainly wouldn't want any piney, grapefruity, citrusy hops distracting you from the malts. I would stick with just Fuggles, I don't get the armpits that Seymour refers to, although he is usually reliable in this area.

Good points, Orlando. To be clear, I like Fuggles a lot, don't find them "arm-pitty" at all. Quite the opposite, I lean toward the argument they are an English "noble hop." Fuggles will be great in this recipe. I'm just saying: if he has the choice of English hops between Fuggles and Goldings, and he's going for maximum appeal...well I don't think anyone in the history of civilization has complained about Goldings. That might be slight hyperbole, but you take my point.

The American hops stood out to me originally, too. I would never specifically formulate a big brown English ale with Columbus, but in this "user-upper" context, I think he'll get away with it. I usually find the early addition is generically bitter, and the piney/grapefruity stuff comes from flavor additions around 30 minutes or less, even more so with late aroma additions. Of course, your mileage may vary. You'll find lots of threads on this forum where members say you can interchange any hops you like for the first/longest bittering addition, and I tend to agree. I'm also tickled by the historic English recipes which Ron Pattinson reveals containing North American hops--likely Cluster and Cascade-ish--similar to Columbus in the grand scheme of things.

[orlando]

As usual enlightening, I was unaware of historical English recipes with Cluster and Cascade-y style hops although I had read that hops were imported a lot more than we think. Goldings are my favourite English hop (stop press I have just used Flyer for the first time so jury is out) but when it comes to big brown beers I instinctively reach for Fuggles, which has the best hop name by far for evoking beer loveliness. I did have a look back at recent Porter recipes and was a little surprised at how hoppy one or two were as they didn't come across like that, I suspect because the malt bills are particularly balancing to highish IBU's.

By the way the Porter I brewed with the coffee "dab" you recommended is, as I type, going down quite beautifully, a very dangerous beer as it slips down so easily.

[alfie09]

right need a pack of s04 then. i dont do liquid yeasts there to expensive for me. so one will be with notts and one with s04. I though the same about columbus i thought that flavour wouldnt be brought forward, i have got some magnum opened up aswell if that seems a better choice?..... ha seymour i will add some porridge oats got some left after the last brew, i was scared of adding any more to the grain bill but hey oh i will chuck some in. not to scrared of being to thick i like to chew through my beer ha, will post some pics of the brew day on here. hopefully it will be sunday depends how the old dragon takes the news of me making beer ha. cheers lads.

i also like fuggles done loads of brews with them on there own. never had smelly pits ha. was thinking of spreading them out though at 15, 10, 5 mins instead of one big whack at 15min. maybe some @ flameout to. will post the recipe i go for sunday

[seymour]

As usual enlightening, I was unaware of historical English recipes with Cluster and Cascade-y style hops although I had read that hops were imported a lot more than we think. Goldings are my favourite English hop (stop press I have just used Flyer for the first time so jury is out) but when it comes to big brown beers I instinctively reach for Fuggles, which has the best hop name by far for evoking beer loveliness. I did have a look back at recent Porter recipes and was a little surprised at how hoppy one or two were as they didn't come across like that, I suspect because the malt bills are particularly balancing to highish IBU's.

By the way the Porter I brewed with the coffee "dab" you recommended is, as I type, going down quite beautifully, a very dangerous beer as it slips down so easily.

More good stuff, I'll drink to that.

On the topic of American hops, whatever associations come to mind, you should also apply them to anything called "British Columbian" a precursor to "Bramling Cross" (which also possesses some similar wildness, while we're at it.) Apparently, even Fuggles and Goldings transplanted in British Columbia took on some American traits due to climate/soil/growing conditions.

If you're in the mood to peruse some such of Ron's recipes (many also containing American 6-Row malt and Corn Flakes, too...starting to sound like crappy US beer, huh?) here you go: Courage X (which even specified Oregon!), Fullers AK, Maclay Oatmalt Stout, Ushers PA and IP, Whitbread X, Whitbread XX, Whitbread XPS, Whitbread Stout. Old recipes with "British Columbian" include Higson's, Belhaven, Boddingtons, etc.

I haven't finished reading the new For the Love of Hops book yet, but lots of good stuff pertaining to this conversation. I highly recommend it already.

[orlando]

As usual enlightening, I was unaware of historical English recipes with Cluster and Cascade-y style hops although I had read that hops were imported a lot more than we think. Goldings are my favourite English hop (stop press I have just used Flyer for the first time so jury is out) but when it comes to big brown beers I instinctively reach for Fuggles, which has the best hop name by far for evoking beer loveliness. I did have a look back at recent Porter recipes and was a little surprised at how hoppy one or two were as they didn't come across like that, I suspect because the malt bills are particularly balancing to highish IBU's.

By the way the Porter I brewed with the coffee "dab" you recommended is, as I type, going down quite beautifully, a very dangerous beer as it slips down so easily.

More good stuff, I'll drink to that.

On the topic of American hops, whatever associations come to mind, you should also apply them to anything called "British Columbian" a precursor to "Bramling Cross" (which also possesses some similar wildness, while we're at it.) Apparently, even Fuggles and Goldings transplanted in British Columbia took on some American traits due to climate/soil/growing conditions.

If you're in the mood to peruse some such of Ron's recipes (many also containing American 6-Row malt and Corn Flakes, too...starting to sound like crappy US beer, huh?) here you go: Courage X (which even specified Oregon!), Fullers AK, Maclay Oatmalt Stout, Ushers PA and IP, Whitbread X, Whitbread XX, Whitbread XPS, Whitbread Stout. Old recipes with "British Columbian" include Higson's, Belhaven, Boddingtons, etc.

I haven't finished reading the new For the Love of Hops book yet, but lots of good stuff pertaining to this conversation. I highly recommend it already.

For The Love of Hops is definitely on the list along with Palmer's Water, which apparently is about Water

[seymour]

Goldings are my favourite English hop (stop press I have just used Flyer for the first time so jury is out)...

Bump.

Hey Orlando,
What did you end-up thinking about those Flyer hops? I assume you were referring to the same batch listed in your signature, "Knight Flyer (Chevallier Malt and UK Flyer hops)"?

[orlando]

Goldings are my favourite English hop (stop press I have just used Flyer for the first time so jury is out)...

Bump.

Hey Orlando,
What did you end-up thinking about those Flyer hops? I assume you were referring to the same batch listed in your signature, "Knight Flyer (Chevallier Malt and UK Flyer hops)"?

Hi Seymour, glad you asked. I have used them in a number of brews now and my conclusion is that they are a great bittering hop and can contribute to a decent hop flavour. They however are not a particularly good aroma hop. If you were looking for a niche for them it would be between Challenger (good) and Target (bad). I would describe the bitterness as "clean" and "crisp" no hint of vegetal or grassy notes and as they are reasonably high alpha I guess that explains it, as you don't have to use so much. I have just got some of the 2012 crop so there maybe some changes to my views around aroma once I have tried these, but for now at least I will be using them as purely a bittering hop in classic English beers.

[seymour]

Great info, thanks for the reply.

I asked the same question over here, but have you heard any clues regarding its parentage? I'm not sure I fully believe the claim, "Flyer is a brand new experimental variety, it didn’t come out of a breeding program. One of our growers found it and thought he would take a ‘Flyer’ on it."