Dubbel this weekend

[Barley Water]

Well, it is supposed to rain all weekend and I know I will be bored so I am going to do what I always do in this situation, brew. This weekend's project will be a Belgian dubbel since I have 25lbs of Belgian pilsner malt at the house which is in search of a beer. I have not settled on a formulation yet but I do know this:

- I will be using White Labs WLP500, Trapist ale yeast.

- I plan to use up to 8oz of the liquid dark Belgian candi sugar.

- I also plan to add about 4oz of raisins in the boil at about 10 minutes before shut down.

I would love to get some ideas concerning:

- Fermentation temperature (I had planned to go at about 68F but I am open to suggestions).

- Any good ideas concerning formulation.

- What temperature do you think I should mash at? I was thinking of doing a single infusion mast at about 150F but I am open to suggestions.

- I was going to make up a pretty big starter but do you think I should try and stress the yeast a little to get more spicy flavors?

I am shooting for the rummy, raisiny, spicy, bready thing with a little bit of funk but not too much. I also want to stay away from the big bannana and big clove but I guess a little is ok. I want the beer to be pretty big but I don't want it to be so sweet that it is cloying. Any novel ideas out there?

[steve_flack]

You may want to use some cane sugar as well as you'll want to get a decent attenuation to stop it being cloying - I'd probably aim at around 10% of the fermentables being sugar. The candi sugar is good for adding flavour but I think you'll need some white sugar as well. You can adjust the mash temp to give more attenuation but I definately think you will need more attenuation than that alone can give you.

If used raisins late in the boil and I'm not sure they added anything to the beer.

WLP500 can be a bit banana if too warm - I prefer WLP530 (Westmalle) myself.

[Barley Water]

Interesting comments, thanks.

Maybe I am laboring under a misconception but will the yeast not eat the candi sugar and increase the attenuation (or does the process of carmelization make the sugars unfermentable)? If your answer is no then I have some jaggary I bought from an Indian market which I could use for this purpose, I have had good luck with it in the past.

Also, you indicate that you can get the big bannana with WLP300 at excessive temperatures, what is your suggestion on an appropriate fermentation temperature (I have a refigerator I use for fermentation with a thermostat so I can controll this variable)?

[oblivious]

Chill the wort to around 16-17c and let it rise naturally, will bring the best out the yeast

Date syrup is supposed to be very good

Here is a podcast from the brewing network about Trappist Rochefort tour and recipe design

And here is Downloadable slide show and guide so you can follow along

Hope this is of some help

[steve_flack]

Maybe I am laboring under a misconception but will the yeast not eat the candi sugar and increase the attenuation (or does the process of carmelization make the sugars unfermentable)?

Some of it will ferment (most of it actually) but a portion of it won't due to caramelisation. I just don't think 8 oz is enough sugar anyway.

Also, you indicate that you can get the big bannana with WLP300 at excessive temperatures, what is your suggestion on an appropriate fermentation temperature (I have a refigerator I use for fermentation with a thermostat so I can controll this variable)?

BLAM says the following for WLP500

Temp 24-29C Flavour Fruity, Moderate Phenolic, Solvent
Temp 19-24C Flavour Spicy, Light Phenol, Fruity
Temp 14-19C Flavour Clean, Balanced, Earthy

The flavours given for WY 1214 (also Chimay and similar to WLP500)

24-29C Clove, Bubblegum,Banana, Alcohol, Rose, Fruity
18-24C Clove, Alcohol, Phenolic, Fruity

It's worth bearing in mind the way a yeast works depends on the brewery equipment, conditions and practises. Westmalle, Achel and Westvleteren all use the same yeast (Achel and Westvleteren drive to Westmalle to get it) but the flavours it gives their beers varies because of the different ways it's used. The yeast they're using is similar to WLP530/WY3787

[Barley Water]

Thanks much guys. Here is what I will do.

- Supplement the caramel with some of my jaggery to get a little better attenuation as well as mash at 148F

- Start the fermentation at about 19C or so and let it get no higher than 24C, I will ramp up the temperature over the primary fermentation

If I don't get what I am looking for flavor wise, I will switch yeast next time (I guess what you folks are saying is that WLP500 is not the best yeast for the flavor profile I am looking for but I already purchased it and I am too cheap to just chuck it out).

Thanks for the help, I will report back once I get this bad boy brewed.

[steve_flack]

If I don't get what I am looking for flavor wise, I will switch yeast next time (I guess what you folks are saying is that WLP500 is not the best yeast for the flavor profile I am looking for

It's an authentic yeast and a lot of people use it but I find it to be a bit harsh and prefer the profile of WLP530. WLP550 (Achouffe) is supposed to be good as well.

[oblivious]

Hi Barley Water


How much Jaggery did you use? I have 2 pounds of the stuff and was planning to Belgian strong dark ale this Monday.

Thanks

[Barley Water]

Oblivious- I just put in 1/2 a pound but then I had also added 8oz of Belgian candi syrup so I didn't want to overdo. I also use the stuff in my Saison and it works out well.

[oblivious]

I was thinking of a pound of Jaggery and half a pound of date syrup

[Barley Water]

I would not hesitate to do that. Since you are making a Dark Strong, adding a pound would be appropriate. I would be interested to hear how the date syrup tastes, I would think that if you could get some of the date flavor to shine through that it would be really nice. I need to poke around the local health food stores and see if I can find a source for that here in Texas.

On a similar note, I also added raisins to the dubbel I made. I took 4oz and put them into a blender with some cheap vodka and chopped the hell out of the whole thing. I let the whole thing sit around in my refigerator for a day then just dumped it all into my wort at flameout. It will be interesting to see if I can pick up the raisin taste in the final product.

[oblivious]

Hi Barley Water

Sean Paxton, from “Trappist Rochefort tour and recipe designâ€

[Barley Water]

I racked this beer into the secondary last night and of course stole a taste. Although it is way to early to tell how this will turn out in the end, I can already tell that the raisin puree worked, I can really taste the raisins so I am very happy about that. Also, I don't pick up any bannana to speak of but the beer is pretty spicy tasting which also is a good thing. The only problem I anticipate is that what I have is "dubbel light" since I did not get the gravity I was looking for but what the hell, even the monks have a bad day once in a while.