Radical Wheat

[raiderman]

A last minute change of plan see me brewing a wheat this weekend. Something I've been meaning to do for a while, but having had an interesting Evil Twin lager with all US hops which was brilliant, the plan is to brew the wheat beer with more interesting hops, only not now having any time for proper planning I thought I'd see what people reckon and decide the recipe by straw poll!
On the malt front I'm thinking 6kg fermentables producing 25l around 50/50 wheat to barley. The Barley is straight pale malt because I'm out of larger malt, although I have some Vienna and Munich I could throw at it - I'm having a clear out! The wheat is standard, although I've a kilo of crystal wheat that I have't been brave enough to use. I'm saving some for an Endeavour brew I'm planning but if anyones used it and thinks it won't spoil thing I might chuck some in!
On the hop front the starting point is twofold, first Mr Twin and he idea something a bit tasty can be achieved from a degree of flexibility and secondly Stan Hieronymus's book which features a german recpie using halletau and nelson sauvin The freezer is pretty full of hops - nelson sauvin aside but I'd appreciate the thoughts of anyone whose been down this road
cheers
d

[jmc]

I've stuck mainly to a traditional German style hefeweiss (with a preference for banana aroma) and just noble hops, mainly Tattnang. My preference is Schneider-Weiss yeast

If you brew with a german or belgian yeast strain that throws lots of clove or banana then it could clash with the more-assertive hops you're planning.

You could go the American Wheatbeer route. If so you may want to use a less flavourful yeast to let hops take centre-stage.

[raiderman]

Ah decisions decisions! Take the point on the yeast, but I'm going stick with the true strain, but I am wondering about using some halletau in the blend

[seymour]

Hallertau is absolutely perfect for any wheat beer, but hardly "radical." Experimentation is awesome, but as jmc said, I seldom stray from German nobles (Tettnang, Hallertau, Saaz, Spalt, etc) in my basic golden wheat ales.

[raiderman]

True it's un radical which is why it's only going to be part of the blend! But I want to lift this beer beyond ordinary and when fruit is often a characteristic of wheat beer why not a dollop of citra perhaps?

[Barley Water]

Last summer I brewed an American Wheat beer with a slight twist, I hop bursted it. Actually got the idea from the same book you are looking at, check out the discussion of 3 Floyds American wheat beer Gumballhead. Anyhow, I was very pleased with the way it came out, the beer was not particularly bitter but had a ton of hop flavor as well as aroma due to heavy late hopping as well as of course substantial dry hopping; it was an easy drinker and quite thirst quenching. Unlike the 3 Floyds product, I wanted serious protien haze so I used a pound of unmalted wheat and I also used the dry Chico strain to ferment and it worked out just fine. Once it gets a bit warmer here I'll start screwing around with the style again, I want to see what heavy use of Citra will do to things. What I was looking for was a lighter beer that was quaffable (on this side of the pond that would be something around 1.050 O.G.). Generally speaking, American wheat beers are boring, we use them to get what I guess you guys call "lager drinkers" over to the dark side. If you are willing to play around a bit though, that style can be quite interesting and if you experiment with some of the hops varieties from "down under" you may well come up with a serious hit.

By the way, carefully read the section concerning the little tricks used when making heffeweizens. I know some of you guys think I'm nuts for underpitching, no oxigenation, open fermentation and a couple other little procedures I have advocated in the past for making heffes. One of the reasons I was so happy to see that book come out was because some of my "wacked ideas" were actually mentioned in the book; I feel exonerated (although I can't say any of that stuff was originally my idea, I just surf the literature looking for stuff like that).

[raiderman]

Not sure what an Amercian Wheat is. Had Blur Moon in Oakland last time I went out to watch the Raiders play. Tasted good like a wheat beer! I agree with the late hopping get more aroma but keep the bitterness low and I'd been thinking citra. I think the grapefruity flavour ought to compliment a wheatear beer. Ill check out the book for more ideas though. Cheers.

[seymour]

Not sure what an Amercian Wheat is. Had Blur Moon in Oakland last time I went out to watch the Raiders play. Tasted good like a wheat beer! I agree with the late hopping get more aroma but keep the bitterness low and I'd been thinking citra. I think the grapefruity flavour ought to compliment a wheatear beer. Ill check out the book for more ideas though. Cheers.

Blue Moon is a wheat beer made in America, it's true, but style-wise it would be considered a mediocre Belgian Wit. The American Wheat style is broadly defined as, say 50% Pale & 50% Wheat, moderately hopped, often with citrusy American varieties, and fermented with a neutral ale yeast (most often US-05/Sierra Nevada/Chico) and often left unfiltered for some hazy, chalky, yeasty taste. It's not a true Hefeweizen because it doesn't use the German weiss yeast with banana and clove aspects. Popular examples are Widmer Hefeweizen and Schlafly Hefeweizen (again, not true Hefe's), Boulevard Unfiltered Wheat, etc. As with all American styles, they keep getting hoppier, definitely into IPA territory.

[raiderman]

In that case I haven't come across any. My experience of America is (aside from the obligatory foray to Florida when the kids were still at home) trips out to San Fracisco to see my eldest who lives there and none of the brewpubs I've been to have done american wheats. I think I'm going to stick to the idea of a German wheat with some Vienna and blow it I shall toss some of the crystal what in too on the basis the slight? maltiness will link well with some Delta which is a hop I rather rate then some FWH halletau to provide an underlying Germanic anchor flavour and some citra towards the end, after the boil and for dry hopping.

[seymour]

Sounds delicious. Good luck!

[raiderman]

Was going to brew today but just an an offer of Sarcens v Ulster at twickenham so brew 2morrow! Seymour you've been worrying me with the comment that halletau for bittering is hardly radical. I've sorted it. Found some Moteuka in the freezer which ill use instead. It gives an orangey flavour if used for the principal bittering hop - which I don't actually like but isn't unhalletua like in a way. I reckon if I shoot for no more than 10 ibu FWH it'll be fine then take it up to 25 with very late additions

[seymour]

There you go, radicalness restored.

[raiderman]

For those of you who get testy when people go off message skip to line 5 made the wheat Herman the German I shall call it only mistake was that I'd planned on playing The or is it A. German Reqiem which I thought was apt only I stuck with the new Johnny Mar which is excellent. For our American cousins Jonhnny hits your shores this week and you should catch him because he was excellent when I saw him
The brew is lookin good went fir 30 ibu because even with late hoppings hard to keep it down and I think citra was made for wheat beer having added 25g after the boil I'm not going to dry hop and ill taste when legging and dry hop the keg if need be

[louiscowdroy]

I've stuck mainly to a traditional German style hefeweiss (with a preference for banana aroma) and just noble hops, mainly Tattnang. My preference is Schneider-Weiss yeast

If you brew with a german or belgian yeast strain that throws lots of clove or banana then it could clash with the more-assertive hops you're planning.

You could go the American Wheatbeer route. If so you may want to use a less flavourful yeast to let hops take centre-stage.

Hey,

Sorry to bother you. Would you happen to have a simple Dubbel I could try please??

Louis

[Rookie]

Last year I had a wheat beer at 6.5% that was bittered to the low 30s IBUs with falconer's flight hops that was very good.