Belgian brew malt substitutions

[Cazamodo]

Looking to brew my first belgian, have found a recipe that I like the look of, and while I'm not too worried about following it exactly, how much difference would I get if I subbed the grains that it calls for for ones I do have...

the original recipe is


4.55 kg Pilsner (2 Row) Bel (3.9 EBC) Grain 1 74.0 %
0.90 kg Caramunich Malt (110.3 EBC) Grain 2 14.6 %
0.45 kg Special B Malt (354.6 EBC) Grain 3 7.3 %
0.25 kg Carafa I (663.9 EBC) Grain 4 4.1 %
21.00 g Styrian Goldings [5.40 %] - Boil 60.0 min Hop 5 12.2 IBUs
15.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 20.0 min Hop 6 3.9 IBUs
15.00 g Hallertauer Hersbrucker [4.00 %] - Boil 5.0 min Hop 7 1.3 IBUs
1.0 pkg Abbey Ale (White Labs #WLP530) [35.49 ml] Yeast 8 -

Now I only have special B.

I was thinking of changing these -

Pilsner - Lager Malt
Caramunich - Crystal
Carafa - Choc (or pale Choc)

Would I still be along the same lines of thsi recipe?


Also, I've never used pellets, but I have the leaf hops. Whats the average leaf/pellet ratio?

[Barley Water]

Well most adjust their bittering hops down about 10% when using pellets versus whole hops (I always use pellets by the way). I don't know that I would worry too much about the other hop additons since utilization drops the later the hops are in the boil. As far as the grains are concerned, I would be concerned about substituting the chocolate for the dehusked carafa. Chocolate is going to give you that roasty coffee flavor while carafa will color the beer without adding a whole lot of roast flavors. I can't tell for sure but that looks somewhat like a dubbel recipe to me; you might consider adding dark candi sugar if you can find it (the expensive liquid stuff). It will tend to thin the beer out as well as add some dark fruit/rummy flavor to the beer both good things with this style.

[wilsoa11111]

agreed, or make ur own candi sugar, not hard and works out pretty darn cheap

[Cazamodo]

Yea sorry forgot to say, It is a Dubbel, and I planned to make my own dark syrup and add around half a kilo to the boil.


Looks like I may have to order some grain anyway. I could get .5kg of carafa with the yeast delivered easy enough. Can I get away with crystal instead or caramunich? I havent ever used many cara grains so not entireley sure of how they work.

[zgoda]

You can safely sub crystal for caramunich. This is proprietary name for 100-150 ebc crystal malts. For Belgian brew you can sub pilsner with pale or even Vienna malt. The key is yeast after all.

[Cazamodo]

Cheers! I think I will just order 500g of carafa when I order the yeast. And then sub the caramunich for crystal!

Also, looking at yeasts. I think I may prefer wlp500 to 530, as it states it gives a more fruity finish.

Anyone have any experience with either of these yeasts?

[jonnyt]

Agreed lots of book published clone brew recipes suggest Pale for Pilsner is fine

[zgoda]

I don't know white labs yeast, but of Wyeast range Abbey (Chimay) are more fruity, Abbey 2 (Rochefort) much cleaner. Ardennes (Achouffe) are in between.

[Cazamodo]

So I plan to make this at the weekend.

I made an amber candi syrup, 2 litres of it from 2 kilo of sugar. I did want it darker but I just ran out of time so amber will have to do.

I also ordered the grains so will only be subbing crystal for the caramunich and lager for the pilsner. And went with the WLP500 as I wanted a fruiter flavour.

First Belgian I've brewed! Any hints on a basic water profile? I have very very hard water, and use a load of CRS.

[subfaction]

Let us know how it goes, out of interest how large a starter are you planning for this?

[jmc]

So I plan to make this at the weekend.

I made an amber candi syrup, 2 litres of it from 2 kilo of sugar. I did want it darker but I just ran out of time so amber will have to do.

I also ordered the grains so will only be subbing crystal for the caramunich and lager for the pilsner. And went with the WLP500 as I wanted a fruiter flavour.

First Belgian I've brewed! Any hints on a basic water profile? I have very very hard water, and use a load of CRS.

I'd have max of 15% of fermentables as sugar.

[Cazamodo]

Ill probably make my standard 1.5L starter on the stir plate.

Also the candi sugar only counts as 11% of the recipe so far. If I worked it out right lol


Also I',m hoping this to be a malty, fruity belgian. Thinking I could mash slightly lower as the candi sugar will add extra fermentables, and the lower mash may bring a maltier taste through?

this is where I need to get my water treatment sorted too, to push for a maltier or hoppier taste too.

[jmc]

Ill probably make my standard 1.5L starter on the stir plate.

Also the candi sugar only counts as 11% of the recipe so far. If I worked it out right lol


Also I',m hoping this to be a malty, fruity belgian. Thinking I could mash slightly lower as the candi sugar will add extra fermentables, and the lower mash may bring a maltier taste through?

this is where I need to get my water treatment sorted too, to push for a maltier or hoppier taste too.

Hi Cazamodo
If 2kg sugar is 11% of malt & sugar weight, then total weight will be 2/.11= 18.18kg ?
What brew length are you doing?

If you want it maltier you may want to mash at higher temp rather than lower to increase non-fermentables.

[Cazamodo]

Sorry I'm being a complete div. I meant higher. Ans also I've been confusing sorry, I meant I made 2k of sugar as thats what I had, I plan to only use 1lb

[jmc]

Sorry I'm being a complete div. I meant higher. Ans also I've been confusing sorry, I meant I made 2k of sugar as thats what I had, I plan to only use 1lb

No worries. Confusion over