Belgianize this:

[dreadskin69]

hi guys, i made this a while ago and want to return to it and make it more trappist/abbey like:

90% pale uk 2 row
5.5% crystal
1.8% torrified wheat
1.8% flaked oats

do you think there are any other grains that should be added? i can get my paws on munich and chocolate easily enough. or should i boost the percentages and reduce others?

it came in about 8.6% with an og of 1077.

i used tomahawk and galaxy and got about 50 ibus which i reconded wasnt bitter enough so im gonna add more to get it up to about 63 ibus.

finially i used so4 in one fermenter and s05 in another. any suggestions for yeast too? i can play around with 2 yeasts (got two fermenters) so which 2 do you guys suggest?

thanks as always

[Matt12398]

I you want it more Trappist/abbey style you want to dial those IBUs back a lot. Seems more double IPA to me.

[wilsoa11111]

defo need a belgain style ale yeast, dried works fine but best is a liquid imho- as for recipe etc the darkest crystal u can find is best, and maybe sub some malt for candi sugar( can diy this) if going for a pale ale goldensyrup works good- i also find a bit of aromatic/melodin malt really ups the maltiness, way more than when i was trying to up with munich- as for hops, do whatever u like but less can be more- i even recycle my dry hops in my belgian ones

[jmc]

defo need a belgain style ale yeast, dried works fine but best is a liquid imho- as for recipe etc the darkest crystal u can find is best, and maybe sub some malt for candi sugar( can diy this) if going for a pale ale goldensyrup works good- i also find a bit of aromatic/melodin malt really ups the maltiness, way more than when i was trying to up with munich- as for hops, do whatever u like but less can be more- i even recycle my dry hops in my belgian ones

+1, especially the yeast which significantly affects taste of Belgian ales.

If you don't want to shell out on a liquid trappist yeast then you can always harvest yeast from a bottle of Chimay Red or Duvel at a push. (Duvel is better for Golden-Blonde beers though)

[Gold]

Yeast will make the biggest difference by far, plenty of interesting liquid yeasts but Safale T58 is also an option for dried.

[seymour]

+1 on the Belgian yeast recommendation, that's an absolute must. T-58 will work if you prefer dry. Don't be afraid to ferment quite warm.

+1 on reducing the IBU, and switch to more traditional types too: Goldings, Styrian Goldings, German nobles, etc.

Lastly: adding some CaraMunich, Aromatic, Special-B, and/or brown sugar will all produce a stronger Belgian impression.

[dreadskin69]

should that be a little bit of all seymour? if so what are we talking percentage wise?

as for yeast i have got two types of dried yeast. safeale ones, but cant remember their respective numbers. one is yellow and one is pink. However, i shall be going and getting a bottle of red and blue chimney. great idea. how? demi john and some sugar water?

[dreadskin69]

and as for the ibus: nope... its that belgian double ipa in the champers bottle that has inspired me. and as for hops, im really not too much of a fan of the old world hops. definitly prefare the more interesting flavour of the new world. version 1 of this beer definitly proved it!

[jmc]

...However, i shall be going and getting a bottle of red and blue chimney. great idea. how? demi john and some sugar water?

Better to use malt rather that sugar for starter as it has all the stuff yeast needs to grow. I use a 10% solution of liquid malt extract eg 50g LME + 450g boiling water in sterile container. Holland and Barett sell jars of LME. Cool to 20c then add dregs from Chimay bottle. Plenty of posts on here about making a yeast starter.

[seymour]

should that be a little bit of all seymour? if so what are we talking percentage wise?...

Here's a good Belgian recipe I posted in another recent thread, to give you some ideas:

SEYMOUR FRUITIG DUBBEL
Caramelly, crazy fruity, subtly spicy, this is a delicious thing of rare beauty.

6 US gallons = 5 Imperial Gallons = 22.7 Litres

GRAINBILL:
54% = 8.21 lb = 3.72 kg, Pilsener Malt
26% = 3.95 lb = 1.79 kg, Vienna Malt
7% = 1.06 lb = 408 g, CaraMunich Malt
3% = .46 lb = 209 g, Special-B Malt
10% = 1.52 lb = 689 g, Brown Cane Sugar

"HOCHKURZ" MULTI-STEP MASH:
30 min at 144°F/62.2°C
40 min at 154°F/67.8°C
10 min at 170°F/76.7°C
Then sparge to collect 8 gallons pre-boil

BOIL 90 minutes, add Irish Moss at 15 min remaining.

HOPS:
.5 oz = 14 g, Challenger, 90 minutes
.5 oz = 14 g, Cascade, 40 minutes
.5 oz = 14 g, Styrian Goldings, 15 minutes

YEAST:
T-58, don't be afraid to ferment warm (of course, a liquid Trappist strain would be even better)

STATS (≈75% mash efficiency and 79% yeast attenuation):
OG: 1064
FG:1013
ABV: 6.7%
IBU: 26
COLOUR: 17°SRM/33°EBC

That's a pretty dark, caramelly, fruity beer though. I can't tell if you're going for something more like a Belgian Blonde Ale.

...as for yeast i have got two types of dried yeast. safeale ones, but cant remember their respective numbers. one is yellow and one is pink...

Depends on your idea of pink, I guess.



In this picture, the only suitable Belgian style yeasts would be: the top left, WB-06, typically used for wheat beers but will give you the desired banana, clove, black pepper spiciness, or better yet the one on top right, T-58, which is a very, very good Belgian yeast. DO NOT use the bottom middle one, US-05 which is the Sierra Nevada/California Ale/Chico strain.

...However, i shall be going and getting a bottle of red and blue chimney. great idea. how? demi john and some sugar water?

That's a great idea. jmc is right, it's best to cultivate the yeast using a malt-based wort, though it's probably fine to sneak some simple sugar in as well, since the Belgian beer you're raising this up for will contain some of each. Simply mix some malt extract with water and boil up a weak wort, allow to cool. Carefully pour the Chimay into a glass to drink, leaving behind a half-inch or so with the yeast dregs. Pour in the unfermented wort, about 2/3 full and cover loosely with sanitized foil and leave in a warm place away from cats. Swirl it each time you walk by and within a few days you'll see activity. You can then pour the whole works into a larger sanitized vessel with yet more unfermented wort to keep increasing the yeast population size. Eventually, carefully pour off the "beer" and pitch the remaining yeast starter into a full-size fermentor with your real batch. Consider using a pack of T-58 as well for safety.

...and as for the ibus: nope... its that belgian double ipa in the champers bottle that has inspired me. and as for hops, im really not too much of a fan of the old world hops. definitly prefare the more interesting flavour of the new world. version 1 of this beer definitly proved it!

That's fine too. You're the brewmaster, and the whole idea behind modern-day Belgian brewing is unlimited creativity. I'll tell you though, the whole Belgian IPA concept is a very, VERY difficult balancing act. I love the concept, but I've yet to taste a really good one. And not for lack of trying, I try every one I see.
Hell, I mean that as a dare, though, not a discouragement. Go for it!

[dreadskin69]

challenge accepted on all fronts. plus its a good excuse to drink some chimney...

[seymour]

challenge accepted on all fronts. plus its a good excuse to drink some chimney...

Great!

If I may offer some more advice: the hardest part is going to be managing the interplay between your preferred heavily-spiced hops with the profound fruity, peppery, earthy Belgian yeast aspects and alcoholic warmth. Except for Orval which is dry-hopped, Trappist ales typically use hops mainly as a subtle bitterness to offset the mild malt sweetness, but much less so in the flavour and aroma stages. And keep in mind Belgian ale finishes much thinner and lighter than your traditional English ales, so you already need fewer hops to accomplish the same level of bitterness. You won't have the big supportive malt backbone you're used to. While drinking the Chimay, allow it to warm, swirl-up a big aromatic head of foam before each sip, breath deep through your nose, and keep asking yourself, "based on what I know about my favourite New World hops and the timing of their usage, which aspects will compliment, rather than compete with what I'm smelling and tasting right now?" Best of luck!

[super_simian]

The new Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast will make a very Belgian-esque beer, and it's nigh on unstoppable.

[dreadskin69]

sage advice as always seymor, cheers!

[seymour]

The new Danstar Belle Saison dry yeast will make a very Belgian-esque beer, and it's nigh on unstoppable.

+1, another excellent option.