Bitter Critique Please

[alwilson]

Hi Chaps

Could you cast an eye over my bitter grist please. I want to aim for something mostly bitter-y but a little different.

Will caragold give me that classic english bitter taste, I dont want overcloying, oversweet toffee, but equally Im not looking for a coloured pale ale either.

71% MO
14% Munich
7% Wheat
8% Caragold

(and some black for colour, TBD)

OG 1.044

19 IBU Warrior Bittering addition

20 IBU (something fruity) at t-20

and 2 IBU (something) at t-5

Nottingham Yeast.


Cheers


Alex

[seymour]

That could certainly produce a very drinkable pale ale, but it probably wouldn't be much like a classic English Bitter, where I very seldom see Munich Malt and never CaraGold. The Munich would definitely tip it toward a German or American concept. I've never personally brewed with CaraGold, but I'm pretty sure that's mainly used in lager brewing as well. And, as you may have noticed, I usually urge a more exciting yeast than Nottingham. It's fine, and super-convenient, but lacks character. If you really want a distinctive English Bitter, then consider experimenting with pretty much any other English ale yeast.

Those are just my thoughts, not really criticisms, and no matter what I'd love to hear what you decide to brew.

Good luck,
-Seymour

[alwilson]

Cheer Seymour.

The reason I picked Caragold was becasue I have it in as use it other beers (well, ive used it once!) and didnt want to order crystal malt...

Munich was for the biscuityness. Wheat for head.

As regards yeast, I have the choice between s-04 or nottinghamd - i worry the s-04 wont attenuate very well. I've had problems with Windsor stalling at 1020.

Alex

[seymour]

I see. Well, you could always make your CaraGold into Crystal malt by wetting it, spreading it out on a baking sheet, then toasting it awhile in a medium-hot oven until it's golden-brown and the room smells biscuity and heavenly. It's really that easy, and adds profoundly cool complexity.

S-04 shouldn't have an attenuation problem, especially for a session strength like yours, many people use it even for Russian Imperial Stouts. Windsor has a really great flavor profile, but you're right, it's a relative low-attenuator unless you mash lower than usual to compensate. Consider a cool dual-strain fermentation: Nottingham and Windsor, or Nottingham and dregs from bottle-conditioned Fullers, for instance.

Cheers!

[alwilson]

Seymour, roasting my own caragold in crystal, is that just for colour adjustment? - Doesn't caragold bring any caramel flavours?

With a 66 mash, do you think I'll make 1012-1010 out of S-04?

Cheers

[seymour]

Seymour, roasting my own caragold in crystal, is that just for colour adjustment? - Doesn't caragold bring any caramel flavours?

Not just colour, I don't care too much about that, the intent is to caramelize the sugars within the malt. Yes, CaraGold ought to produce a little caramel flavour, y'know like an Oktoberfest lager for instance, but I understand it's only around 9°L whereas typical English Crystal is more like 60-80°L, right? Just like turning bread into toast, the darker it gets, the more caramelization occurs, and the more flavorful melanoidins are produced (until it goes too far and simply becomes charred, that is.) I really wouldn't expect to get much caramel from an 8% addition of so lightly-kilned a malt, but I could be wrong. Maybe you only want a subtle trace of caramel, though, in which case it might be ideal. Anyone else wanna chime in?

...With a 66 mash, do you think I'll make 1012-1010 out of S-04?

I would sure think so, albeit perhaps slower than Nottingham. My recent Seymour Flyer Best, for instance, was mashed at 152.6°F/67°C, and it fermented from 1047 to 1013 at the coolest end of it's ideal temperature range. No pressure though, continue using Nottingham if you prefer, it's better at least than Chico/US-05/American Ale...

[Barley Water]

Well I'm just a lowley Texan so you should take this for what it's worth but I really think the two greatest things about UK beers are the interesting flavors brought by the various English ale yeasts and the contributions made by authentic English Crystal malt. If you are going to brew relatively low gravity beer (which I will abitrarily define as anything under about 1.050 O.G.) then one goal should be to make sure it doesn't come off as watery. The two easiest ways to do that are using crystal malt and a less attenuative strain of yeast.
Sometime just for the hell of it, get hold of some of the Fuller's yeast (WLP02). It provides interesting fruity flavors and just a touch of diacetyl, God, it's just sublime. That and the combination of a bit of caramel and you end up with a light butterscotch flavor which when balanced properly by the bittering of the earthy UK hops is just to die for. As it turns out, this evening is our brew club's June meeting in a bar which has a rotating Fuller's tap and frankly, I'm getting rather hot and bothered just thinking about it.

[jimp2003]

I would agree with the comments above. I have used caragold in a few brews and it does not give any of the toffee like flavour that most bitters have. I also would not use munich in a bitter but I don't think that it would be detrimental if you kept it in.

Nottingham is a yeast that I would avoid in a bitter mainly because it tends to have quite a high attenuation and does not bring anything to the party. S04 would be okay but again I don't seem to pick up much from it either (it would however leave more body than the notty). If you want to pay the extra and are prepared to make a starter I would go for a liquid yeast like WLP002 or the wyeast equivalent.

[alwilson]

Cheers guys! I'm cnvinced... So with that in mind what colour crystal is best for a best bitter? I dont want to overdo the toffee but I do want a nod towards something London pride like..

Cheers

[jimp2003]

Cheers guys! I'm cnvinced... So with that in mind what colour crystal is best for a best bitter? I dont want to overdo the toffee but I do want a nod towards something London pride like..

Cheers

60 lovibond (120EBC) crystal would be my first choice. Like THIS.

[alwilson]

Cheers jim... And about 7-8 percent or less?

[jimp2003]

I make a cracking bitter with about 7% crystal, 89% MO, 3% wheat and 1% black. Bittered to about 30IBUs with fuggles and Delta hops and S04 yeast (I know it goes against what I said about S04..) - it's a bloody lovely brew!!

Then again I have made some with only 4-5% crystal and they have been good too.

[seymour]

I make a cracking bitter with about 7% crystal, 89% MO, 3% wheat and 1% black. Bittered to about 30IBUs with fuggles and Delta hops and S04 yeast (I know it goes against what I said about S04..) - it's a bloody lovely brew!!

Then again I have made some with only 4-5% crystal and they have been good too.

That sounds really good jimp2003. What gravity, ABV do you aim for? Can you share more about your hops usage and timing? I've never brewed Delta hops, what do they give you? I've read they're a cross between Fuggles and a Cascades-derived male, which could be extremely interesting.

[jimp2003]

The recipe and brewday report is HERE. I used up some celeia and fuggles for bittering and then a mix of fuggles and delta for aroma and flavour at the end. OG was 1.042 and IBUs at 35.

It was one of my favourite bitters to date. The richness of the crystal went well with the bitterness. I could taste the fuggles but there was also a very subtle citrussy note which I assumed came from the delta.

I really want to brew it again with just delta to see how they perform centre-stage so to speak.

[seymour]

Oh man, that does look delicious. Thanks for sharing!

And just for the record, since the OP asked about yeast, back then you said you fermented with WLP037 "Yorkshire Square Ale" which must be partly why it came out so nice compared to plain ol' S-04. Cheers!