Recreating Boddingtons

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Hanglow
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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Hanglow » Thu Jun 23, 2016 11:54 am

Because you need to lower mash ph to help the breakdown of proteins in the mash, which is done using particular enzymes . Hence enzymatic/enzymic.

Now of course it can also apply to malts with higher diastatic power too, such as 6 row, but 2.5% of 6 row would be fairly pointless if it was just for extra diastatic power I'd have thought, most recipes that use it for that would use more. If you look at most of the ones using it that ron has posted on his blog over the years, they tend to use 10 -20% or sometimes more which would make more sense.


Heres what Graham Wheeler has said about it

"Enzymic malt usually refers to Dixon's Patent Malt - sometimes called Dixon's Enzymic Malt, but it is not much more enzymic than any other malt - it is an acid malt. It is termed enzymic because it is used to lower mash pH to the optimum for the enzymes."
Planned: Green Hop ale
Fermenting: Nothing
Bottled: Home grown Halletau Mittelfruh golden ale, centennial golden ale, Brown Kolsch, Strong Burton with Brett C

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Thu Jun 23, 2016 1:18 pm

Hanglow wrote:Because you need to lower mash ph to help the breakdown of proteins in the mash, which is done using particular enzymes . Hence enzymatic/enzymic.

Now of course it can also apply to malts with higher diastatic power too, such as 6 row, but 2.5% of 6 row would be fairly pointless if it was just for extra diastatic power I'd have thought, most recipes that use it for that would use more. If you look at most of the ones using it that ron has posted on his blog over the years, they tend to use 10 -20% or sometimes more which would make more sense.


Heres what Graham Wheeler has said about it

"Enzymic malt usually refers to Dixon's Patent Malt - sometimes called Dixon's Enzymic Malt, but it is not much more enzymic than any other malt - it is an acid malt. It is termed enzymic because it is used to lower mash pH to the optimum for the enzymes."
learn something every day reading here ;) thank you.

So the question is, is this really a necessity for 23L batch, i regularly see pre boil efficiency well over 80%, some see 90% with the GF. Or is it just a case of it had it so make sure its there to be sure?

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Hanglow
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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Hanglow » Thu Jun 23, 2016 6:19 pm

I think its just going to depend on your water and whether or not you prefer using acidulated malt or other acids to change the mash ph

finding the best yeast/yeasts to use would be much more important imo, if that is at all possible
Planned: Green Hop ale
Fermenting: Nothing
Bottled: Home grown Halletau Mittelfruh golden ale, centennial golden ale, Brown Kolsch, Strong Burton with Brett C

Clibit
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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Clibit » Thu Jun 23, 2016 7:11 pm

Yeah thanks Hanglow, that makes sense.

And I agree about yeast being the big issue. And a blend might be a good idea. I heard that the Boddington's yeast was a multi-strain affair that ended up in a mess and had to be replaced at some point. But you could blend something neutral but attenuative like 001/US05 with something mildly estery. Liquid yeasts if you mean business I think.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Thu Jun 23, 2016 10:55 pm

Brewed a 90's Boddies clone-ish on Tuesday, its stronger but based on one of the recipes on this thread, wanted something possibly that was good enough for a charity brew down at my local. Anyway, pitched yeast Tuesday 2PM, the yeast was re hydrated Notty on 400ml of wort from the boiler 5mins in cooled to 20c quickly in an ice bath...i was doing a 90 min boil. Pitch amount was 20g, i just used 2 packets 11g each. It took off in 3hrs with strong activity the morning after. Tested gravity at 2PM today, from 1.048 down to 1.010 in 2 days..i sh1t you not, and its still going (although slowly)

I have a feeling this will stop around 1.009 maybe 1.008, the yeast has started dropping like a lead balloon already.. however it proves Notty looks like it will go down low enough. GV12 did the same on the previous brew also so thats 2 good ale yeasts attenuating down to where we need it. I don't think we need a blend at all.

Clibit
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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by Clibit » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:00 am

It's not all about attenuation.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Fri Jun 24, 2016 12:13 am

I know, taste too, however if blending 2 yeast its going to be seriously complicated to get what we need or close to it. Honestly I have no faith in us ever finding the right yeast, after speaking to Ray and Jess from the blog ray actually said Boddies yeast probably changed many times, we will have to live with what we have and honestly keeping it simple always seems to work better IMO. Boddies were not that technical a brewery it seems.

My point was the yeasts I have tested will attenuate down low enough, I feared they would not but they do...

So the next test will be probably a split brew into 3 fermenters, i might see if i can get 25L out of the GF so just over 8L per yeast, we shall see. I think more taste gains will come from getting the additional sugar right.

patto1ro
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Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by patto1ro » Fri Jun 24, 2016 11:12 am

f00b4r wrote:
patto1ro wrote:
Clibit wrote:I think they just used Goldings, but from different suppliers. Could be wrong. Probably not crucial as hops were mostly used for bitterness it seems.

The grain bill was very simple, I think enzymatic was American 6-row, used to increase fermentability. It shows up in records from other years.

I'm not convinced Nottingham will work for a Boddies clone, but interested to see how your beer turns out.
Looking at a brewing record from 1989. It has Fuggles, Goldings, Whitbread Goldings Varieties, Styrian Goldings, Northern Brewers and something abbreviated to Bx.
If that's an ex pat with a penchant for historical beers and mild, would you have access to other brewing records of the beer or any of the original brewers themselves?
Yes and yes, I do have access to more records. In 1939 the hops were Oregon, Styrian and English. In 1970, all English.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Fri Jun 24, 2016 1:50 pm

patto1ro wrote: Yes and yes, I do have access to more records. In 1939 the hops were Oregon, Styrian and English. In 1970, all English.
English......so which, do the records say?

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Sat Jul 02, 2016 3:36 pm

2016-07-02 14.07.16.jpg
Decided to go with the old recipe, will adjust slightly for next brew as it was hard work to get the efficiency with the recipe grain bill, so will up the pale malt by 250g next time just to be sure.

Could have squeezed 24l from the grainfather, figured 23L was enough, might drop 1L off the sparge volume next time so it comes in bang on 23L and see what the gravity gives me with the extra 250g pale malt and adjust on the 3rd brew if needed. Pitched onto Notty slurry from previous brew which was based on this recipe anyway.

OG is bang on 1.036...hoping the colour is right.

Edit...brew no2....Reduced the sparge by 1L to ensure the right OG is achieved, this now means bang on 23L into the fermenter.
old boddies pre 1970.png

12.75L mash, 17L sparge in the GF

Pitched yeast Saturday afternoon, no airlock activity today (kinda common on fastfermenters) so checked the gravity this morning...1.008, so around 48hrs in 3.7% ABV.1 collection ball of yeast slurry harvested, looks like i will get another also from it. Taste from the trial glass has massive promise.
2016-07-04 09.46.42.jpg
Update Weds, brew day + 4, gravity down to steady 1.008, dry hop time i think....3g of hops though, is it worth it?

You could easy brew 2 of these per week if you dry hop in the keg ;)

farleyman

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by farleyman » Sun Jul 17, 2016 11:37 am

Hi Guys
For a history of how the mighty fell chack out Boak and Baileys Beer Blog
Where The Boddies are Buried

Happy Reading

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Sun Jul 24, 2016 8:37 pm

2016-07-24 19.36.45.jpg
Come home from a weekend camping to a keystone popped from the Pin containing the second clone at 24IBU, probably a day open so I sanitised a new keystone and drove it home then installed the cask widge kit to try an save at least a few pints from the pin for around a week. Its sat now under co2 hoping it will hold condition and at least allow me and a few mates to decide if this is close enough.

The first one i brewed was at 28 IBU, this will be on as a charity brew, i think that will be closer, the one here with the popped keystone is 24IBU and while stunning is just not bitter enough IMO.... VERY close though, and the dryness is bang one.

This was poured via a party tap, all a i could get together to dispense with the widge kit under CO2 to gain me some time with the beer.....looks bang on colour though.
Will be brewing this one again, traditional English bitter (pale ale) for me is well worth my time.

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Sat Jul 30, 2016 4:16 pm

Had this on in my local for charity. 28 IBU is perfect, the dryness was perfect too, only issue was it was only 98% bright (no clue why) but it still went down well and all those who tried it said it was close to how they remember the old Boddies.

So now I will move on and create the 1990's version (which is the one most of the recipes out there are for) however this 1960's version really is one of my favourites now. It brewed out to 4% so a little stronger than Boddies was originally and 44g of sugar needs reducing down to around 30g for secondary in the Pin, it was a bit lively and the girls had to let them sit a minute or so when pulling them.

Northern Brewer for Bittering and Goldings for aroma and dry hop. I will just adjust the % of Northern Brewer up to get the 28IBU so the final hop bill will be Norther Brewer biased for the next ones. Might push the dry hop quantity to 6g also (just because I can ;) )

daf

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by daf » Fri Aug 19, 2016 9:16 am

Great work and thanks for the updates! Can you see it working from bottles?

bigtoe

Re: Recreating Boddingtons

Post by bigtoe » Sun Aug 28, 2016 12:03 am

Yeah can't see why it would not work bottled, its actually a nice easy beer to make and comes out pretty consistent, only issue is we are all so used to hoppy juicy beers now it gets a little lost...still i like it and thats all the counts ;)

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