American IPA and Speciality Grains

[Jocky]

I was intending to brew an American IPA this weekend - something with a bit more oomph that I can serve in smaller servings but with plenty of flavour.

After looking around I found a recipe that I like the look of, which looked a bit like this:

ABV: 6.8%
IBU: 60 IBU
OG: 1.068
FG: 1.017

80% Pale
13% Vienna
3.5% Crystal 20L
3.5% Carapils/Dextrine malt

Magnum 60 mins (30 IBU)
Citra/Amarillo mix at 15 min and 5 min to get to 60IBU
Dry hop with plenty more Citra/Amarillo.


My question here is - does the Carapils really make a difference at 3.5%?
Same for the pale crystal?

I was just thinking about omitting the carapils, replacing with some more pale crystal. Thoughts please.

[Morten]

Carapils is really good for head retention and a little bit of mouthfeel.

You will have both with the grainbill and from the amount of hops.

[Jocky]

Does the carapils really have an effect at 3.5%?

Is 3.5% noticably different to 3.5% pale crystal?

[TC2642]

I wouldn't have thought so, may add a bit of colour and some maltyness but I would forgo both the carapils and the crystal if you want a better IPA.

[CestrIan]

I agree. I'd get rid of the Vienna & crystal/carapils. With a 7% IPA the professional American brewers like Stone just use English pale malt, so that it's a hop forward as opposed to malt forward beer. You want to show off the hops, so you could even add some dextrose, to make it more drinkable.

[Jocky]

I agree. I'd get rid of the Vienna & crystal/carapils. With a 7% IPA the professional American brewers like Stone just use English pale malt, so that it's a hop forward as opposed to malt forward beer. You want to show off the hops, so you could even add some dextrose, to make it more drinkable.

When you say get rid of the crystal/carapils, do you mean to get rid of both the pale crystal and the carapils in the recipe?

The reason I ask is because Stone IPA is 93% pale and 7% Crystal 15L.

[CestrIan]

Bad example Stone IPA does have 7% crystal. I'm sure your recipe will make a great beer. I've made IPA's with Vienna and Munich in the past and a good slice of crystal, but they can get a bit thick & chewy. I find you can get away with in lower OG pale ales. The last few IPAs I've done have just been straight marris otter on the grain bill and they've turned out great. This was after I read this in Mitch Steele's IPA about double IPAs but I think it applies to IPAs too;

“One of the big detriments to using crystal malt in an IPA is that as the beer ages the flavours from crystal malt can oxidise in to heavy dried fruit, raisin and prune like flavours that completely overwhelm the hop flavour in the beer…
Cilurzo at Port and Tom Nickel (former head brewer at Oggi’s) recommend using English pale malt as an alternative to crystal or Munich malt. This is a technique designed to get more malt character in to the beer without conflicting with the hops.”

[Jocky]

Interesting. I was listening to a podcast today and they said something similar about crystal, but that it was a particular problem for aging beers (e.g. A barley wine).

Overall I wanted just a little bit of chew - this isn't meant to be a clean hoppy pale. I may decide to remove the Vienna though as the original recipe was American and supposedly the Maris Otter in using will impart a bit more malt than the US malt in the original.

[Barley Water]

Just a couple of things from somebody on the other side of the pond. First, if you see either Munich or Vienna malt in an American recipe where they are using domestic 2 row malt it is there because the brewer is trying to increase the malt flavor in the beer. American 2 row is wimpy compared to good floor malted Maris Otter; what's going on is that they are trying to simulate the good stuff with what is on hand over here. If you are using the good stuff as the base malt I don't think you need to add it. Secondly, there are a couple of schools of thought on adding a bunch of crystal malt to an American IPA. Clearly, adding crystal is going to sweeten up the beer as well as increasing the terminal gravity plus I guess add some color. Remember, you are making a 6+% beer and if you increase the terminal gravity the so called "drinkability" will be decreased. Also worth considering is that the residual sweetness will cover some of the bitterness and hop flavor. Many commerical breweries add crystal, Stone being one. Others, like Dogfish Head for instance, don't add any crystal at all. You end up with a dryer product which showcases the hops a little more and at least in my opinion is more "drinkable". You should try commerical examples that are typical of both approches and see which you like better then tweek you recipe accordingly. Interestingly, the better Imperial IPA brewers are adding sugar to the grist in an attempt to dry out the beer since a really big beer gets to be just too much, just something to think about.

[TC2642]

Interestingly, the better Imperial IPA brewers are adding sugar to the grist in an attempt to dry out the beer since a really big beer gets to be just too much, just something to think about.

That's a good point, I usually add a percentage of white sugar to help balance out the maltyness and accentuate the hop profile. I think it also helps with diluting the nitrogen content down a bit as well.

[Jocky]

Good to read that I can remove the Vienna, as that's exactly what I intended to do having read a bit more around the difference between US and British pale malts.

Overall I'm heading toward the Stone IPA recipe - use crystal at 5% for a little bit of chewiness, but nothing else, mash low and use plenty of healthy yeast (WLP002). I'm hoping I can push this down to finish around 1.013/14, which shouldn't leave too much body.

If this doesn't work out I'll try it again with some sugar - I thought about this, but I'm still learning to build a recipe, so didn't want to overcomplicate this time.

[TC2642]

Cool, let us know how it turns out. I'd probably double the IBU's next time as well

[Barley Water]

I'll just throw one more thing at you for your consideration. WLP02 (Fuller's yeast) is known to be on the low end when it comes to attenuation. If you use that strain along with substantial crystal malt....well you'll likely get a bigger beer. I think I would brew the beer then if you think it came out too chewy maybe switch strains (WLP01 or WLP07 for instance). Another thing about that strain is that it can throw a decent amount of diacetyl which you really don't want in a hoppy beer. Pitch a big starter and make sure to do a good diacetyl rest and above all, don't pull the beer off the yeast cake too soon. Of course, this from a guy who brewed the IPA currently on tap at my house with the notorious Ringwood strain (but then I didn't have any crystal malt in the grist). I hope to brew a low gravity so called session IPA later in the year and may well use WLP02 because it should make the beer drink bigger than it really is (an advantage in a lower O.G. beer).

[Jocky]

It's something I'm certainly wary of, but I really wanted something added by the yeast instead of just using Chico. I've estimated I can get down to 1.014/5 based upon previous experience with my setup and mashing looow.

If it makes something nice then that's all good, but it wouldn't be fun if I nailed every brew on the first try...

[Barley Water]

This last weekend I tried one of those sessionable IPA's from a respected brewer in California and frankly I didn't like it. I thought the stuff was thin tasting and the hops came off as very grassy making the whole thing what I guess I would call out of balance (if indeed there is such a thing as being in balance when talking about American IPA's). I think if I want a so called sessionable bitter beer I'll just stick with English bitters and American pale ales.