A relatively simple lager/IPA hybrid

[octoscott]

Gonna knock up something like below at the weekend, however i'm not sure of the hop schedule. Aiming for a lager type hybrid, maybe more of a steam beer.

I want something around the 45IBU mark, but not sure if my combo would work. I have available, Magnum, Columbus, Citra, Amarillo, Cascade, Perle, Liberty, Herbrucker and Simcoe.

Any tips appreciated.

Recipe Specs
----------------
Batch Size (L): 12.5
Total Grain (kg): 3.000
Total Hops (g): 30.00
Original Gravity (OG): 1.052 (°P): 12.9
Final Gravity (FG): 1.013 (°P): 3.3
Alcohol by Volume (ABV): 5.11 %
Colour (SRM): 7.8 (EBC): 15.4
Bitterness (IBU): 45.3 (Average)
Brewhouse Efficiency (%): 70
Boil Time (Minutes): 60

Grain Bill
----------------
2.500 kg Pilsner (83%)
0.250 kg Wheat Malt (8.5%)
0.250 kg Crystal 60 (8.5%)

Hop Bill
----------------
10.0 g Magnum Leaf (12.5% Alpha) @ 60 Minutes (Boil) (0.8 g/L)
5.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
5.0 g Simcoe Leaf (12.2% Alpha) @ 30 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
5.0 g Amarillo Leaf (8.6% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)
5.0 g Simcoe Leaf (12.2% Alpha) @ 10 Minutes (Boil) (0.4 g/L)

Misc Bill
----------------

Single step Infusion at 151°F for 60 Minutes.
Fermented at 68°F with Safale US-05

[Barley Water]

I think looking at that it will essentially taste like an APA with a fair amount of crystal malt, possibly bordering on an American Amber Ale. Of course there is absolutely nothing wrong with that however I probably wouldn't bother doing it with lager yeast just because using a fairly clean ale yeast would make your life easier and I don't think the flavor difference will be all that noticable. Most lagers use noble hops which are very mellow in character compared to the hops you plan to throw in there. Have fun and good luck.

[killer]

I've never liked Anchor steam - it tastes off to me. Now your beer looks like a good one - I wouldn't say it's a lager though if you are fermenting with S05 - I think BarleyWater is on the money when he says it's a tainted APA.

I recently came across a few "hopped lagers" from europe (One was called Hop Love PIls)- they were what I think you are describing. Pilsners that were hopped with American hops like Amarillo Centennial etc. They were very good - clean and crisp but hoppy. Were they worth the extra effort that goes with lagering ? Possibly not from a homebrew point of view. The abundance of hops dominates the typical delicate pilsner flavour with the nice noble hop/ malt balance you can find. I'm not sure that they would be easily distinguishable from a cleanly fermented APA (as you propose - S05 at say 17/ 18°C)

For what I think you are talking about I would drop the crystal a little, try drop the FG a little (to 1010 maybe), and drop the IBU to 30 ish. Then push a few more aromatic hops late. Of course that's just my 2 cents ...

Good luck with it.

[octoscott]

Thanks for the advice guys. I think I may well drop the crystal much lower and go along the lines of an APA and possibly lager it for a few weeks.

Cheers.

[Rookie]

India Pale Lager is getting more popular here in the States, I say brew whatever beer you want with whatever yeast you want. I've lagered a couple of ales and think it gave me a smoother product.
The only thing I'd do different is to bitter with columbus instead of magnum and maybe try to get the fermentation temp down to the low 60s.

[themadhippy]

India Pale Lager bags the copyright on dark ipa lager

[Matt12398]

India Pale Lager bags the copyright on dark ipa lager

I think you'll find that's a Cascadian dark lager

[roscoe]

probably slightly different,.... after experimenting ie when ambient garage temps dropped I was mega-worried but found US-05 for me fully fermented at 15oC abeit slower and very clean...

Armed with this knowledge and us05 confidence I am doing a kinda Mountain Goat Steam Ale clone, (it is not a steam beer) lite easy drinking with the citrus US hops effect. Its an ale but on the 'lager' end of the ale scale ????

I use a whack more wheat 20-25%, no crystal, small amount dex, bitter to 30-35 late hopping and follow up with cascade or citra dry hop depending on mood or available hops.

Summer nectar so easy suppin', you could drink it straight of of the fermenter.

I am looking also for easy lager recipe, but miffed at the higher cost of lager yeast £3.50 for S23 vs £2 for US05 per sachet and you need 50-100% more !

[octoscott]

I am looking also for easy lager recipe, but miffed at the higher cost of lager yeast £3.50 for S23 vs £2 for US05 per sachet and you need 50-100% more !

Where are you getting sachets of US-05 for 2 quid?!!

[AnthonyUK]

Nottingham at 12-14°c is great for this type of hybrid style. Very clean and drops out much better than US-05.

[CestrIan]

I make a lot of these in the summer months. We call them lagerish. Just use lager malt and us05 at low temps. No crystal, but a little wheat wont hurt. I havent tried it with Notty, but sounds like a good idea.

Tip is to keep the IBUs low about 25ish - like a typical UK lager and go easy on the late additions max 28g. I disagree on the Magnum. That is a perfect clean bittering hop for this style. I love motueka as the late hops in this style, nice clean lemon and lime citrus flavour. Perfect for a BBQ in the back garden.

IMO no need to lager it. get it in the bottle and carbonate slightly more than you would for a Pale ale, 125g of sugar for 5 gallon. wait for 2 weeks and serve chilled. om nom nom!

[roscoe]

I am looking also for easy lager recipe, but miffed at the higher cost of lager yeast £3.50 for S23 vs £2 for US05 per sachet and you need 50-100% more !

Where are you getting sachets of US-05 for 2 quid?!!

Here http://www.worcesterhopshop.co.uk/index ... eaa4474835
www.worcesterhopshop.co.uk
..... or a 500g for £35 whereas S-23 runs is more than £80 and rec pitch is more than 50% more, so I make it x4 for yeast
looks like starters and reusing yeast carryon is back on the cards..... huff

[Rookie]

I am looking also for easy lager recipe, but miffed at the higher cost of lager yeast £3.50 for S23 vs £2 for US05 per sachet and you need 50-100% more !

Use S-34/70 if you can find it instead of the S-23.

[octoscott]

And here is the result. A fantastic brew! Probably up there with my top 3.

[Jonnyconga]

I Octoscott, looks tasty!
Did you go ahead with the original recipe or did you make some changes? Did you still use magnum for buttering? and what yeast did you use?