Proper 'chocolate-not-coffee' Stout?

[Kev888]

One of my friends likes chocolate stouts that genuinely taste chocolatey (apparently she considers many don't), but she doesn't like them if they taste noticeably like coffee. She named a few that were reasonable, the only one I recognised/remembered was Young's.

So I'm guessing she's looking for a true chocolate flavour, rather than the flavour of what we'd call 'chocolate' malt.

Has anyone found a good recipe for this?

Cheers
Kev

[killer]

Hi Kev,

I've played around with this a little bit. It's one of those difficult to balance things.But my (rudimentary) take is the following. Black malt is burnt coffee. Roast malt is coffee and chocolate is well - fairly chocolatey to me. My girlfriend is a fan of stouts but not too roasty, so perhaps something like you are looking for... I think I stumbled across what you are talking about by dialing back on the chocolate malt and adding some crystal 120 which gave toffee sweetness but not too much roast/ burnt flavour. The smallish amount of chocolate gave it a sweet chocolate flavour so.

I forget the exact recipe but it was something like 5% ABV, 35 IBU (no late hops - think I used Target for bittering). Base of Marris Otter, about 6% crystal 120, and 5% chocolate. I used nottingham - that was in the early days of brewing for me. It finished about 1013. I confess that I much preferred a version with 5% roast, 5% chocolate 5% crystal 60 and 5% crystal 120 and 5% oats with the Guinness yeast - but that's not what you asked.

I also bumped up my chloride and sodium and found that this enhanced my stouts relative to those pre water treatment.

Cheers

[Kev888]

Thanks, thats very helpful. I've not pursued chocolate tastes before so that could save me some failed attempts!

Cheers
kev

[jaroporter]

have you used pale chocolate malt? i love regular chocolate malt for it's roast and usually chuck a handful into bitters for a little roast edge, subsituted with pale chocolate once (i think about 1,5%), fermented half with mauri 514 which was lovely and hop forward, but the half fermented with lovely malty wlp005 yeast had a massive smooth chocolate taste to it. which i hated! but maybe could help if that's what you're looking for.. ?

[PhilB]

Hi Kev

have you used pale chocolate malt?

... similarly, the de-husked Carafa Special malts tend to come with less of those astringent, roasty flavours ... an Oatmeal Mild that I made with 4.5% each of Carafa Special I and Amber Malt, and around 8% Crystal Malt didn't just taste of any chocolate, but particularly of Mars' Galaxy chocolate, it was that smooth ... that probably wouldn't have been dark enough for you to class it as stout and I don't know if that's the sort of chocolate flavour you're after, or your thinking more of bitter, dark chocolate, but the Carafa malts come in three darknesses

the only one I recognised/remembered was Young's.

... and if you're talking of the Young's Double Chocolate Stout, they do add chocolate as well, to that beer, probably as cocoa, added late in the boil. Which you may consider "cheating", but may be something you might want to consider, also

Cheers, PhilB

[Kev888]

have you used pale chocolate malt? i love regular chocolate malt for it's roast and usually chuck a handful into bitters for a little roast edge, subsituted with pale chocolate once (i think about 1,5%), fermented half with mauri 514 which was lovely and hop forward, but the half fermented with lovely malty wlp005 yeast had a massive smooth chocolate taste to it. which i hated! but maybe could help if that's what you're looking for.. ?

Ah, interesting thank you - a ' massive smooth chocolate taste' certainly sounds like the right direction... I guess it may be less offensive in a stout... hopefully!!

Cheers
kev

[Kev888]

... an Oatmeal Mild that I made with 4.5% each of Carafa Special I and Amber Malt, and around 8% Crystal Malt didn't just taste of any chocolate, but particularly of Mars' Galaxy chocolate, it was that smooth ... that probably wouldn't have been dark enough for you to class it as stout and I don't know if that's the sort of chocolate flavour you're after, or your thinking more of bitter, dark chocolate, but the Carafa malts come in three darknesses

That sounds the ticket as well - I hadn't expected such precision in tasting notes! Yeah it wouldn't be dark enough but that would be easy enough to achieve

... and if you're talking of the Young's Double Chocolate Stout, they do add chocolate as well, to that beer, probably as cocoa, added late in the boil. Which you may consider "cheating", but may be something you might want to consider, also

I believe it would have been the double chocolate one yes. Sounds good, I don't mind adding cocoa or chocolate powder - they seem fairly honest ingredients and not inappropriate for a brew which is purposely intended to be very chocolatey.

many thanks,
Kev

[Mr. Dripping]

I have a bottle of this in the cupboard that I was going to try and make a chocolate stout with
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006 ... KBAT6CG4AF
I had the idea from reading the label on a bottle of Sam Smiths Chocolate Stout....that I have subsequently gone off lol
The Sam Smiths actually tastes like liquid chocolate.

[Kev888]

That looks very potential, many thanks! I've not tried the Sam Smith's chocolate stout, it sounds like it may be a bit OTT for me (probably not my friend!), but presumably i could reduce the dose a bit.

Cheers
Kev

[seymour]

Pale Malt + a little Dark Crystal Malt + a little oatmeal for creaminess and head retention + 5% Pale Chocolate Malt + 8% Chocolate Malt. Optional: cacao nibs (and lactose if you're going for a milk chocolate effect) in the late boil.

In my experience 8% really is the magic number for maximum chocolateliness.

[Kev888]

Superb, thank you Seymour. Seems a fairly straight-forward approach.

Cheers
Kev

[Mr. Dripping]

That looks very potential, many thanks! I've not tried the Sam Smith's chocolate stout, it sounds like it may be a bit OTT for me (probably not my friend!), but presumably i could reduce the dose a bit.

Cheers
Kev

If you can't get it locally, I will bring one when I pick up the chiller. It's brewed 5 miles away from where I live.

[Kev888]

Sounds very handy! I've not looked to see if its available around here, if not I'll let you know - thanks!

Cheers
kev

[seymour]

I have a bottle of this in the cupboard that I was going to try and make a chocolate stout with
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B006 ... KBAT6CG4AF
I had the idea from reading the label on a bottle of Sam Smiths Chocolate Stout....that I have subsequently gone off lol
The Sam Smiths actually tastes like liquid chocolate.

That is such a consistently tasty beer. Though not quite as good, I usually enjoy Wells Double Chocolate Stout as well. Uses chocolate malt + actual chocolate.

[john_drummer]

Saltaire Brewery Triple Chocoholic sounds like it might hit the spot

I have a recipe that's quite close, but technically only a double chocolate stout:

to make 23L OG 1045, FG 1011, bitterness 31.6 IBU, Colour 68.2 EBC

Grain:
3855g Pale malt
568g Chocolate malt
219g flaked oats
219g Torrefied wheat
110g black roasted barley
110g cocoa powder

mash 60 mins at 68degC, boil 90 mins

Hops:
Fuggles 44g @ 90 mins
Fuggles 11g @ 10 mins
Fuggles 11g @ 0 mins

ferment with Danstar Nottingham yeast, rehydrated as per instructions