What do you think to this recipe/idea?

[will_raymo2000]

I like a nice malty beer but with a nice hoppiness to it as well - can anyone comment on this idea?

for 23l
3.37kg Marris Otter (76%)
0.89kg Crystal (20%)
0.18kg Munich (4%)

Hops:
9.92 g Amarillo - Boil 20.0 mins
9.92 g Chinook- Boil 20.0 min
9.92 g Citra - Boil 15.0 min
9.92 g Mosaic - Boil 10.0 min

ending with OG 1.042
IBU: 27
EBC: 24.5

Thinking of using notty or s04 with this one.

Any thoughts or suggestions? I normally use a bit of wheat malt for the head retention but thought i might try without for this one.

[seymour]

20% Crystal is massive. Not unheard of, Sarah Hughes Ruby Dark Mild is supposedly that high, but prepare yourself for a toffee-bomb. The malt-sweetness would definitely support a lot more hops if you wanna upgrade it to a Brown IPA.

A more typical rule of thumb would be 10% max Crystal, but screw typical. Happy brewing.

[JKaranka]

You could swap the Munich and Crystal around. Also, I'd add some more late hops to steep or dry hop.

[NobbyIPA]

yup unless you have a sweet tooth lower the crystal to less than 10%

i would go as low as 3%

what colour is the crystal?

surely not a 20 minute boil that's not enough min 90 mins for me

[scuppeteer]

I would agree, too much crystal.

The hop additions are fine assuming you have only posted when they go in, obviously you would be boiling the wort for an hour overall.

[will_raymo2000]

Yep those are just hop boiling times not the overall boil length.

The reason for the high crystal is because of a recipe I scribbled down from a beer I liked in my old local with microbrewery. It wasn't over sweet, more like a deep brown best bitter, and the brewer assured me those are the percentages. I might up the hops and pop some more in at flameout for aroma

[NobbyIPA]

Yep those are just hop boiling times not the overall boil length.

The reason for the high crystal is because of a recipe I scribbled down from a beer I liked in my old local with microbrewery. I might up the hops and pop some more in at flameout for aroma

if it's a known and tasted recipe you like go for it

[seymour]

if it's a known and tasted recipe you like go for it

+1

Do you mind sharing which commercial beer it was?

[will_raymo2000]

It's based on this beer - Green Goose from Mill Green Brewery http://www.millgreenbrewery.co.uk/green-goose.html

And the recipe is briefly discussed here: https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 3412624606

Reading the description on the website I'm going to up the late hops by quite a bit.

[JKaranka]

Americans are obsessed with crystal malt, though!

[seymour]

Americans are obsessed with crystal malt, though!

You think? I think modern American brewers are much more obsessed with Munich Malt (a very light Crystal Malt, I suppose, but also a worthy base malt in its own right) and lightly toasted malts such as Victory or Belgian Biscuit. I seldom see APA and A-IPA recipes with more than 3-5% Crystal. I still associate heavy Crystal Malt usage with English brewers, but maybe that's a misconception.

Perhaps you're saying Americans are obsessed with putting too much Crystal Malt in their English Ale clones? Perhaps, but all the brewers I know stick to clone brewing guides by English authors...

[JKaranka]

What about American red ales? And crystal in porter, stout, mild, barleywine, IPA. You rarely see an American recipe without crystal malt for a British style plus they have the most crystal heavy style in the world in their red. I understand that a lot is to give character to their 2 row, but still it's a lot of crystal. And it often replaces things like amber malt, brown malt, brewers caramel or invert syrup.

[Charles1968]

As well as having 20% crystal, you have a yeast that won't attenuate all the way, so there's a risk that the beer will be sweet and cloying. However, this can work in a light beer if you balance it with enough bitterness from the hops. If you cut the crystal to under 5%, the lack of body in a light beer can leave you with something watery.

Incidentally, "malty" doesn't mean sweet. You get malt flavour from the Munich, but sweetness from the crystal. It's possible to make very malty beers with malts like Vienna and Munich that are also dry; likewise you can make sweet or full-bodied beers with crystal or carapils that don't taste malty.

[Charles1968]

Americans are obsessed with crystal malt, though!

More with Carapils and Munich, I would say. Especially Carapils. They find their way into lots of American recipes for German and Belgian beers. Even jamil zainasheff puts Carapils in pilsners. American takes on English bitter tend to have a bit too much crystal in my experience.

[orlando]

I would echo what has been said so far, especially using "malty" malts like Munich rather than sweet malts like Crystal, particularly dark crystal, and add a couple of things. Balancing a beer is in my view a neglected aspect of recipe design, getting the balance between malt sweetness and bitterness is what often distinguishes a commercial beer from a lot of the HB I try. In your recipe you want a malt forward beer so you have some options to pursue like mashing a little higher or choosing a low attenuating yeast.Do not neglect the role of the hops though or you will end up with a cloying overly sweet beer, at an IBU of only 27 I think you're in trouble. Balance the hop bitterness flavour and aroma by ensuring 3 additions at least, at the beginning towards the end and at the end.

However there is one other caveat to discuss, one thing brewers never reveal about their beers is the water profile they brewed with, this can have a profound effect on the flavour impression of that beer, now your brewer may not have done anything to his water in which case your chances of cloning are improved, if he has then less so. If water treatment isn't part of your regime then this might be superfluous but I would look for a 1:1 sulphate to chloride ratio to help achieve the brown ale profile this recipe appears to have.