American Pilsner

[joeskidmore]

Hi All,

I am looking to brew about 25l of an American style pilsner at some point this week and will be keeping it pretty simple. So far I have:

- 4kg Lager Malt (2.5 EBC)
- 1.5gk Flaked Maize (1 EBC)

Although BeerSmith is telling me this is a little on the light side for this style? Would there be much harm in adding a little chocolate malt to darken it to fit the profile?

As for hop choices, am I going with Chinook for bittering and a mixture of Kohatu and German Perle for aroma to hopefully get a fruity mixture with a hint of spiciness.

Then to finish a Saflager W-34/70 with a two stage lager fermentation at 12c and dropping to 3c to condition.

Any feedback would be welcome.

Cheers,
-Joe

[6470zzy]

An American Lager is very basic....... 6 row, 2 row and then either rice or corn. As for hops, Cluster is the historical choice. I would not add the chocolate malt if you are looking to stay true to form.

[joeskidmore]

Unfortunately I don't have any Cluster, Crystal or Tettenang. As these seem to be the consistent hops across different recipes.

I've chosen the ones based purely on the fact they are currently sat in my fridge and seem the most appropriate of what I have available.

[Rookie]

Hi All,
Would there be much harm in adding a little chocolate malt to darken it to fit the profile?
Cheers,
-Joe

How much is a little?
If you really have to use dark roasted malt I'd go with midnight wheat or caraffa instead of chocolate.

[joeskidmore]

According to BeerSmith I would only need 5g of chocolate to put the EBC into the correct range.

I do have some Carafa III and would only need 4g of this. I think it may be simpler in this instance to leave all other malts out and if it's a little lighter then so be it.

[Matt12398]

Are you submitting this into a competition? If not, why bother with the chocolate? The ranges in Beersmith are based on BJCP guidelines as far as I am aware. If it's you drinking it do you care how close the colour is to the guideline?

[Barley Water]

Really, you don't want to even get within 10 yards of an American Pilsner with Chinook hops. American pilsners are almost completely devoid of any kind of taste which is why you want to drink them ice cold. You can however use many of the German noble hops, just don't use alot; you want bitterness in the low teens and no hop flavor or aroma.

Now, this is the part of my missive where I try to talk you out of brewing a beer like that. Instead of an American Pilsner how about a nice CAP. While the latter has flavor in spades, the former eh....not so much. I made a CAP about 6 weeks ago and it is still sitting in secondary; likely to be kegged this week. You can make a CAP pretty bitter and there is no reason why you can't have a bunch of both hop flavor and aroma. Cluster hops were typically used for a beer like that however it is acceptable to use the noble German hops as well and I think you'll like the result much better. The so called "C" hops are inappropriate for this style. Naturally, this is homebrewing so you can do whatever the hell you wish because at the end of the day your opinion is the only one that really matters.

[6470zzy]

Instead of an American Pilsner how about a nice CAP.

Ok, I'll bite what is a CAP?

[Thorbz]

Classic American Pilsner. Think American Pilsner, but with more flavour and substance.

[Aleman]

Instead of an American Pilsner how about a nice CAP.

Ok, I'll bite what is a CAP?

Seek and ye shall find

[Barley Water]

Good post there Aleman; very instructive.
The CAP I made a few weeks ago involved doing a ceral mash on a couple of pounds of ground corn which to be honest is a bit of work although worth it in my opinion. Flaked corn can also be used with good results avoiding the ceral mash if somebody wishes to go that route. To cut down on the work a bit and speed things up, in the future I am going to try and do the ceral mash in a slow cooker the night before the brew day. My plan is to just chuck the ground corn and about a pound of cushed grain in the cooker and just let it go overnight. I'm hoping that the cooker will bring the ceral mash up to temperature slowly enough so that any free starch is converted. In the morning, I'll just do about a 30 minute protein rest on the rest of the grain then bring the whole thing up to sacrification temperature using the now boiling ceral mash. Before trying this out on a lager though I'll likely make a preprohibition cream ale (so I can hop it up enough to make it interesting) just in case this whole thing turns into a great big "cluster f@&k".

[joeskidmore]

Now, this is the part of my missive where I try to talk you out of brewing a beer like that. Instead of an American Pilsner how about a nice CAP. While the latter has flavor in spades, the former eh....not so much. I made a CAP about 6 weeks ago and it is still sitting in secondary; likely to be kegged this week. You can make a CAP pretty bitter and there is no reason why you can't have a bunch of both hop flavor and aroma. Cluster hops were typically used for a beer like that however it is acceptable to use the noble German hops as well and I think you'll like the result much better. The so called "C" hops are inappropriate for this style. Naturally, this is homebrewing so you can do whatever the hell you wish because at the end of the day your opinion is the only one that really matters.

I think I prefer that option, especially as I get to play around with more hops. And I do like your idea of using the slow cooker for an overnight cereal mash (I have two so SWMBO can't complain).

I've re-jigged my mash to take into account the cereal mash and also decided to use Amarillo for bittering and Galaxy for aroma - then a mixture for dry hopping.

Cannot wait until brew day!

[Barley Water]

Well have fun. By the way, what is your water like? I have medium hard water here in the heart of Texas so I cut the stuff with distilled water when making a CAP. Mineral rich brewing water is akaline which will cause you issues in the mash with light grain so at the very least prepare to add some acid or buffer to get the pH down. Also, the minerals will do a number on the way the hops come across and depending on what you end up doing may cause a harsh bitterness which I really try to avoid in my beers. My solution to that problem is to use low cohumolone hops which is why I like to use German noble hops in a beer like this (and that's also why I hate Chinook along with the fact that it is so over-powering). I am seriously considering purchasing an RO water filtering system so I can taylor my water to the style I am making but so far I have been cheap and lazy.

[6470zzy]

Instead of an American Pilsner how about a nice CAP.

Ok, I'll bite what is a CAP?

Seek and ye shall find

Ah yes, the old PPP.................... (Pre-Prohibition Pilsner)

[joeskidmore]

Well have fun. By the way, what is your water like? I have medium hard water here in the heart of Texas so I cut the stuff with distilled water when making a CAP. Mineral rich brewing water is akaline which will cause you issues in the mash with light grain so at the very least prepare to add some acid or buffer to get the pH down. Also, the minerals will do a number on the way the hops come across and depending on what you end up doing may cause a harsh bitterness which I really try to avoid in my beers. My solution to that problem is to use low cohumolone hops which is why I like to use German noble hops in a beer like this (and that's also why I hate Chinook along with the fact that it is so over-powering). I am seriously considering purchasing an RO water filtering system so I can taylor my water to the style I am making but so far I have been cheap and lazy.

My water is supposedly "Moderately Soft" which puts my Calcium Carbonate within the 50-100 and Calcium within 20-30 range. I've never done any water treatment up until now (other than pre boiling the water and adding Camden tablet) so I'm looking at buying a RO system also, but when they are in the region of £90-£150 dependent on production quantity it needs a large rationale.

I've pushed my CAP brew behind a wheat brew I'll be doing tomorrow as it will hopefully be entered into a competition so want it done sooner rather than later.