black lager

[delboy]

Has anyone got any good recipes for black lager, had one of these today and i have to say i really enjoyed it.

[Vossy1]

Which one did you have DB
I had one last night and I have to say it was very nice in a strange sort of way. I'd also like to give one a shot.

EDIT..just answered my own question by looking in what's everyone suppin..it was evidently the same black lager I tried from T**co's
Herold, very nice

[BigEd]

I like the style and should try to work one into my lager schedule this winter. Here is a version of one of my old recipes with the avoirdupois taken out and at the BeerTools default efficiency of 72%.


Category Dark Lager
Subcategory Schwarzbier (Black Beer)
Recipe Type All Grain
Batch Size 38 liters
Volume Boiled 46 liters
Mash Efficiency 72 %
Total Grain/Extract 8.30 kg.
Total Hops 99.0 g.


5 kg. German 2-row Pils
3 kg. German Dark Munich
.30 kg. Weyermann Carafa II®
57 g. Hallertau Hersbruck (Pellets, 4.50 %AA) boiled 60 min.
28 g. Spalt Spalter (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 30 min.
14 g. Spalt Spalter (Pellets, 4.75 %AA) boiled 5 min.
Yeast : WYeast 2308 Munich Lager

My usual mash for this would be a decoction starting at 56C for 20 minutes, 66C for 60 minutes followed by 76C for 10 minutes but a single infusion @66C would also be fine.

[delboy]

It seems like carafa would be the way to go (cheers Ed) either II or III, must put that in my next grain order.

Edit i think carafa I is the one to get

[bconnery]

This is a style a lot of guys over here brew.
Ross of craftbrewer has an excellent one so hopefully you can get his recipe...
Here's some info on a thread about it from ahb...

Someone else's opinion but many seemed to agree...

Hi
This is a good beer to brew but you need to do a few things right first before you give it a go. The beer really is a Pilsener with a hint of datk malts and should be brewed and treated as a pilsener. It must me very clean and a crisp drinking beer, it should have no roasted tastes from dark malts and should not have too much chocolate as well. Its a very balanced beer with not much leeway.
If you make the beer with a little to much crystal and a malty lager yeast you will end up with a Munich Dunkle Beer.
Your yeast needs to be a very clean non malty lager yeast. i would not add much Caramunich as it will make the beer too sweet.
Treat the beer as a pilsener with a little Carpils and Carafa some Munich and hops for a bitterness around the mid 30's. If you have an IBU around 25 it will be a Munich Dunkle.
Dont make it to bitter as it will be out of balance.

Here is a recipe that will work and brewed right you will be very happy

Schwarzbier 1 2005
4-C Schwarzbier (Black Beer)

Size: 19.2 L
Efficiency: 65.0%
Attenuation: 75.0%
Calories: 170.84 per 12.0 fl oz

Original Gravity: 1.051 (1.046 - 1.052)
Terminal Gravity: 1.013 (1.010 - 1.016)
Color: 22.4 (17.0 - 30.0)
Alcohol: 5.05% (4.4% - 5.4%)
Bitterness: 31.42 (22.0 - 32.0)

Ingredients:
3.4 kg JWM Export Pilsner
1.0 kg JWM Dark Munich
0.25 kg Cara-Pils Dextrine Malt
0.25 kg Weyermann Carafa Special I
24.0 g Perle (7.0%) - added during boil, boiled 60.0 min
15.0 g Tettnanger Tettnang (4.7%) - added during boil, boiled 90.0 min
15.0 g Tettnanger Tettnang (4.7%) - added during boil, boiled 1.0 min
1 ea White Labs WLP800 Pilsner Lager

Schedule:

Notes:
Single infusion mash
Ferment at 12C for 3 weeks
Rest at 20C for 4 days
Rack to secondary and lager for 3 - 5 weeks at 2C

Results generated by BeerTools Pro 1.0.19

[delboy]

cheers bconnery, im not a big fan of perle but i could see that working for me with something like saaz or mittlefruh.

[Frothy]

Most excellent. I had some Budvar Black the other day and it was quite amazing, like you say not roasty at all but with vanilla and almost elderflower notes.
Wish I had a bit more room in the lagering fridge.
Frothy

[Beatnik69]

Is this the same sort of stuff as Asahi Black? I think it's a black lager. I've also had Kostritzer from Austria(?) whic I think is a black beer rather than a black lager. The John Hewitt in Belfast has been serving this on draught recently.

[delboy]

Is this the same sort of stuff as Asahi Black? I think it's a black lager. I've also had Kostritzer from Austria(?) whic I think is a black beer rather than a black lager. The John Hewitt in Belfast has been serving this on draught recently.

Hi Beatnik
Asahi black probably isn't that great an example of a black lager, the one in the john hewitt is probably nearer the mark.
The black lager that has inspired me to brew one is the Herold black lager from the czech republic (its in tescos new world beer range). Its very nice, about the same colour as guiness but with a much more subtle roastyness combined with a real lager crispness that leaves you thinking i wouldn't mind another of those.

PS i recognise that name from the OWC site, lets hope the lads get a result in latvia and iceland next week

[Beatnik69]

Darn right del! Do you post over there?

[delboy]

Darn right del! Do you post over there?

I just lurk and read the posts, its a cracking forum though. To be honest i spend enough time on here posting, i think if i started posting on OWC (its addictive reading never mind posting) i'd end up getting the sack .

[bconnery]

Is this the same sort of stuff as Asahi Black? I think it's a black lager. I've also had Kostritzer from Austria(?) whic I think is a black beer rather than a black lager. The John Hewitt in Belfast has been serving this on draught recently.

Kostritzer is a Schwarzbier, from Germany, which means it is a black lager.
It is one of the most well known examples of this particular style.
Pretty tasty too

[Aleman]

The black lager that has inspired me to brew one is the Herold black lager from the Czech republic

In that case Del, you are probably looking at a basic Bohemian Pilsner recipe with an addition of say 500g of Carafa III. which is the QTY I have in my Black Wheat and there is very little if no roastiness. Another possibility to reduce the roast character, to to try the cold steeping technique for the dark grain. Basically you steep 3 times the amount of roast grain in a qty of water for 16 hours, then strain off the liquid and use that.

Now my favorite Pilsner recipe is (For 40L @ 1.048)

6 Kg Pilsner Malt
2 Kg Munich Malt
250g Melanoidin Malt

Mash at 3L/Kg , Then sparge and boil with (To aim for 40 IBU ish)

100g Czech Saaz for 90 Minutes
75g Czech Saaz For 60 Minutes
100g Czech Saaz For 0 Minutes (Ideally steep when wort temp drops below 80C)

Ferment with a good lager yeast WLP -300 comes to mind or the South German Bock (Ayinger) at 10C for a fortnight, then transfer to secondary and drop the temp to 1-2C. Hold at this temp for 12 Weeks, before transferring to keg and drinking.

[bconnery]

A place that sells pre made kits for AG recipes has this..
Again I haven't tried it but apparently it comes from a day at the brewery, at least according to the site...

Moravian Dark Lager
This recipe is taken directly from the brewlog from the day I spent brewing in the Moravia. 44% Budvar malt, 44% light munich, 10% 55Lov crystal, and 2% black patent. See complete details.
5 lb Budvar malt, 5 lb munich, 1.1 lb crystal 55, 3 oz black patent, 1 oz Saaz, 1 oz Saaz, 1 oz Saaz, Budvar yeast, 1 cup corn sugar. Three hop additions at 90, 60, 20 minutes.

And some more info...
http://www.stpats.com/grainins.htm#brewlog
http://www.stpats.com/grainins.htm

[delboy]

The black lager that has inspired me to brew one is the Herold black lager from the Czech republic

In that case Del, you are probably looking at a basic Bohemian Pilsner recipe with an addition of say 500g of Carafa III. which is the QTY I have in my Black Wheat and there is very little if no roastiness. Another possibility to reduce the roast character, to to try the cold steeping technique for the dark grain. Basically you steep 3 times the amount of roast grain in a qty of water for 16 hours, then strain off the liquid and use that.

Now my favorite Pilsner recipe is (For 40L @ 1.048)

6 Kg Pilsner Malt
2 Kg Munich Malt
250g Melanoidin Malt

Mash at 3L/Kg , Then sparge and boil with (To aim for 40 IBU ish)

100g Czech Saaz for 90 Minutes
75g Czech Saaz For 60 Minutes
100g Czech Saaz For 0 Minutes (Ideally steep when wort temp drops below 80C)

Ferment with a good lager yeast WLP -300 comes to mind or the South German Bock (Ayinger) at 10C for a fortnight, then transfer to secondary and drop the temp to 1-2C. Hold at this temp for 12 Weeks, before transferring to keg and drinking.

After twelves weeks im guessing that would be amazing.

500g of carafa III , the belgians really know what they are doing if you can add that much and not have it taste overly roasty. I really will have to get my hands on some carafa