Reviving Old Brews

[Jon Harper]

Hi Guys, I am trying to find out about an old brewery in Croydon. I want to try to clone some or one of their beers, but they closed in 1954, ten years before I was born. The idea is that the project will become a tribute to my Grandfather, who worked there. The brewery was called Page and Overton, and I was hoping that someone on here may be able to help me recreate a beer that hasn't been brewed for over 60 years.

[richc]

The man you need is Ron Pattinson, he's the researcher of historic beer recipes etc. (http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/)

[millmaster]

Possibly daft question - but have you tried searching on the net ?
There are a number of historical societies that specialise in either breweing or local history.

http://www.breweryhistory.com/journal/a ... roydon.pdf
http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.u ... /c/F168719

A couple of articles show up on Google and you may be able to get details of brews and recipes from following them up

Good luck with the search and if you find any recipes might be worht posting them here, or the links to them ?

[Jon Harper]

Thanks Guys. Thats awesome

[bochgoch]

Looks like Ron Pattinson can help - with a brown ale at least...

Shut up about Barclay Perkins: Brown Ale and Double Brown Ale = http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... e.html?m=1

Sounds like a really worthwhile project, please keep us updated!

Cheers

[seymour]

Page & Overton Brewery in Croydon





Ron Pattinson has shared some 1898 pricing info about F. Overton's Brewing ales, and a few gravity measurements as bochgoch shared, but I've never seen mention of actual Page & Overton brewers' logbooks. Weren't they a subsidiary of Charrington at the time of their 1954 closure? If so—and I know this is the kind of leap that can get you in trouble, but some information is better than no information—due to consolidation and cost savings pressures it is plausible Page & Overton would share ingredients and processes with this 1950 Charrington recipe. In any case, this is very typical English ale for the period.

1950 Charrington IPA
OG: 1044
ABV: 4.3%
Grainbill: 75% UK Pale Malt, 10% Flaked Maize, 15% #2 Invert Sugar & Brewer's Caramel
Hops: probably Fuggles or similar, few kettle hops but generous dry hops?
IBU: relatively low, perhaps ≈20?
Colour: light brown
Yeast: The National Collection of Yeast Cultures has archived two Charrington yeasts. The most likely match for a Page & Overton replication would be NCYC 241, described as "single colony culture of Charrington's brewery yeast (Whitbread SC16)" deposited in 1951, just three years before Page & Overton's closure.

Additional thoughts:

Compared to the aforementioned IPA, Charrington Burton Ale from that period was a bit higher grav (OG 1046-1048) and darker brown. Those were fairly strong post-war English ales, right?

Since the late 1800s, Overton's Burton Ale was popular, which suggests clues to water chemistry. I'm no expert on this, but you wanna use enough gypsum to slightly acidify the mash and provide a crisp hoppy finish, and enough yeast nutrient to promote high attenuation, right?

Like most traditional English breweries, Page & Overton's ales were conditioned in, and dispensed from wooden casks. If you can afford one, they're really fun to work with as a homebrewer, but you could simulate these tannins by adding oak chips to a regular secondary fermentor.

Have you read this WWII beer run story? It talks about fastening Page & Overton Mild and Bitter barrels to bombers for English soldiers in Normandy:
http://aviationbuzzword.com/the-story-o ... -beer-run/

[Jon Harper]

Wow Guys, this is all fantastic information. Thank you so much, I feel like I'm getting a lot closer to finding some sort of recipe now

[6470zzy]

Don't you just love the internet? Here is a pre-1914 label from their Oatmeal Stout

Cheers

[Jon Harper]

I have bought Ron Pattinson's book on brewing vintage beers and there is an Oatmeal Stout recipe in there. I might try it and see what its like. In the meantime I will continue to look for any more information on what these beers tasted like so that I might be able to tweak one of his recipes and get close to what I want to achieve. Thanks yet again guys.

[YeastFace Brew Co.]

I want to do one of Page & Overton's too. A trip to Croydon Library may bear some fruit.

[Jon Harper]

[quote="YeastFace Brew Co."]I want to do one of Page & Overton's too. A trip to Croydon Library may bear some fruit.[/quote]

Ah thats interesting. I didn't think it would be of much interest to many others. My sister used to work at Croydon Library, I'm wondering what she can find out so I don't have to make the journey.

[scotsloon]

You might also like to contact the Durden Park Beer Circle HERE. They specialise in researching old beer recipe's so might be able to help. They also have an excellent book "Old British Beers" and how to make them. I've just scanned the index and sadly Page and Overton is not mentioned.

[Bazz]

I've just been reading this whilst recovering on the sofa from a night shift with a pot of coffee and have clicked and googled a few bits and found the following on the barclay perkins blogspot, there is the mention of a 1929 Page and Overton Double brown ale, it gives the OG (1044.9) FG (1011.7) ABV 4.31% and apparent attenuation (73.94%), although no recipe details.

There is however a recipe for a Whitbread Double brown ale from 1955 which is:

Grain bill:

Pale malt - Earp PA No 2 - 22.10%
Pale malt - Dereham PA No 1 - 44.20%
Pale malt - Ipswich PA - 13.81%
Chocolate malt - 0.55%
Sugar - Garton No 3 - 13.81%
Sugar - Hay 'M' - 5.52%

Hops:

Whitbread OR55 MK 1oz
Gaskain EK 1oz
Davy Kent 1.75oz

This was for a 6.5 Gallon brew, presumably before the boil looking at the recipe.

Other information from the comments suggest IBU at 50-70 and colour around 30 SRM.

Now alot of that looks like gobaldigook to me but i imagine the pale malts could be subbed for MO and maybe a bit of mild malt? The sugars for dark brown sugar and treacle/invert sugar syrup, and the hops Whitbread golding variety/EKG/Fuggles.

Hope this is of some help. Information from here:

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/se ... nd+overton

http://barclayperkins.blogspot.co.uk/20 ... n-ale.html

[Bazz]

Having a quick play with Brew mate whilst waiting for school pick up time to rol round and i've come up with this based on the above:

Grain bill:

Marris otter 80% - 3.789kg
Crystal malt 60L 2.5% - 0.118kg
Chocolate malt 2% - 0.095kg
Black Treacle 10% - 0.474kg
Dark candi sugar 5.5% - 0.260kg

Hops:

WGV 32g @ 60 mins
EKG 32g @ 60 mins
Fuggles 50g @ 30 mins

Classic English ale yeast of your choice.

60 minute boil, 25.7 SRM, 51.4 IBU.

May be a starting point at any rate.

[Pegasus]

Was on a Harvey's tour last week. When in the mash room the guide pointed to the tun in the middle and said they got it from "Page's of Croydon" and when he started there 1 of his jobs was to go into it after each mash and sweep the spent grains through waste holes - now done with added SS powered arms (in pic).