lagering a kolsch

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patwestlake
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lagering a kolsch

Post by patwestlake » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:17 pm

1st ever lager, so thought I'd try a kolsch. Standard recipe, but it's the fermenting/lagering schedule I'd like comments on.

4000g Pilsner
500g wheat

40g Saaz @ 60
10g Saaz @ 10
10g Hallertau Traditional @ FO.
OG 1049
FG 1009
CML kolsch yeast

4-5 days @ 15degc (basically end of primary fermentation)
1 day @ 18degc DAR then back to 15degC ????
rack after 14 days, then keep as low as my fridge will go for a month, targeting 2-4 degC

it's the bit after the diacetyl rest I'm not sure about. back to 15? Lower? What part of this phase could be part of the lagering "month"? I'm normally a 2 weeks in the FV man and don't DAR, so all advice welcome (including the recipe )

Cheers, Pat
FV : Weiss Weiss Baby! Weissbier
Conditioning (bottles) : Citra SmaSh, Kolsch, Dirty Harry (Ghost Ship), Galaxy Delight

Next : Patersbier, some sort of Goes, Cindy Juice

McMullan
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by McMullan » Sun Jan 21, 2018 11:23 pm

As a minimum, a few weeks at fridge temperature, 4-5*C. I'd transfer to a second FV then 'lager'.

patwestlake
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by patwestlake » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:06 am

Thanks for the reply.

Transfer off the yeast after 2 weeks and then lager is fine, but what temp after diacetyl rest for the balance of the 2 weeks initial fermentation?

Pat
FV : Weiss Weiss Baby! Weissbier
Conditioning (bottles) : Citra SmaSh, Kolsch, Dirty Harry (Ghost Ship), Galaxy Delight

Next : Patersbier, some sort of Goes, Cindy Juice

RobP

Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by RobP » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:36 am

Don't think 4-5 days would be long enough to reach lowest level of attenuation at 15c. I think you'd need more like 2-3 weeks. The diacetyl rest is done when fermentation ends. When fermentation ends and you're satisfied that attenuation has gone as far as it's going you raise temperature so that the yeast can clear up any diacetyl or precursors. After the diacetyl rest you start cooling to lagering temperature.

McMullan
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by McMullan » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:00 am

patwestlake wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:06 am
Thanks for the reply.

Transfer off the yeast after 2 weeks and then lager is fine, but what temp after diacetyl rest for the balance of the 2 weeks initial fermentation?

Pat
At least fridge temperature. Lowest just above 0*C. Drop the temp slowly, less than, say, 5*C a day, to stop the FV imploding :twisted:

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alix101
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by alix101 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:40 am

I find it unnecessary to lager a kolsch, simply crash cool after 2 weeks in the primary at 17c.
Just treat it like an ale... Because it is....
"Everybody should belive in something : and I belive I'll have another drink".

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alexlark
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by alexlark » Mon Jan 22, 2018 11:34 am

What alix says. I crashed mine so that I could fine with gelatine. No lagering required.

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Hanglow
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Hanglow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:00 pm

Depends how true to Kolsch you want to be :) I assume you aren't in Koln to begin with :) but that aside, Kunze is always a go-to for modern german beers -

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Planned: Green Hop ale
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Bottled: Home grown Halletau Mittelfruh golden ale, centennial golden ale, Brown Kolsch, Strong Burton with Brett C

RobP

Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by RobP » Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:28 pm

The commercial Kolsch brewers do lager their beer.

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Hanglow
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Hanglow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:04 pm

Yeah, if all you are doing is fermenting it warm and fining with no lagering you are just making a golden ale. I wouldn't call it a kolsch
Planned: Green Hop ale
Fermenting: Nothing
Bottled: Home grown Halletau Mittelfruh golden ale, centennial golden ale, Brown Kolsch, Strong Burton with Brett C

Meatymc
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Meatymc » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:06 pm

Interesting it states Vienna - did (what I thought was!!) a load of research before doing my 1st Kolsh last week and everyone was saying Pilsner with no more than 10% Vienna addition?!? Would have been more than happy being the other way around - some of my best brews so far have been with Vienna predominating.

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Hanglow
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Hanglow » Mon Jan 22, 2018 2:33 pm

There's a kolsch malt made in cologne I think that is closer to vienna than pils in colour - but also other recipes always say pils/pale 95% carahell 5% or like you say with 10-15% vienna . I can never really see the point in adding only 10% vienna as it is a base malt also, although kolsch is rather delicate as a beer so it would be more noticeable than say in an IPA etc

Also that text is a translation from the german i think, so something might be lost
Planned: Green Hop ale
Fermenting: Nothing
Bottled: Home grown Halletau Mittelfruh golden ale, centennial golden ale, Brown Kolsch, Strong Burton with Brett C

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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Rookie » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:11 pm

patwestlake wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 12:06 am
Thanks for the reply.
Transfer off the yeast after 2 weeks and then lager is fine, but what temp after diacetyl rest for the balance of the 2 weeks initial fermentation?
Pat
The first thing that you need to determine is whether you actually need a d-rest.
I'm just here for the beer.

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Barley Water
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by Barley Water » Mon Jan 22, 2018 7:57 pm

Well theory and all that aside, if I were making that beer I would do a D rest for two reasons. First of all, you don't want any in the beer and if there is some swimming around in there after primary fermentation you for sure want it gone. Secondly, on the off chance that the beer did not attenuate as much as it could at a colder temperature, the D rest will encourage the yeast to finish the job. I make quite a bit of German beer (or bier) and my experience with that stuff in general is you want to dry it out as much as you can. Even the so called malty styles are properly attenuated so as not to allow the beer to come off as cloying because our friends over there like to drink in quantity as we all know. :D
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alix101
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Re: lagering a kolsch

Post by alix101 » Mon Jan 22, 2018 8:08 pm

I'm not going to knock lagering if you want to do it but it's a beer I've Brewed a few times and picked up a couple of medals for at the NHBC and I've never had the need...
It's dependent on water.
I'd be tempted to use an RO water if I lived in an area with high mineral content.. Luckily my tap water doesn't Nedd much tweaking for this style and I've not had an issue with clarity or off flavours ... Kolsch isn't known to have a good shelf life and the for me if it's ready it's ready no need to put it on a cave for the winter.... Obviously with Saccharomyces pastorianus you need to diacetyl rest and lager typically because of the stress the yeast goes through but with this being an ale strain and and it being acceptable for a kolsch to have sulphur and fruit flavours I don't do it.... Soz to waffle on...
"Everybody should belive in something : and I belive I'll have another drink".

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