Advice on building an electric brew in a bag system...

[hybrid3y3]

I live in a flat, so am limited in available space (have just managed to convince the missus about the need for a fermentation fridge) so am interested in "simplifying" my current setup of 33L pot & double bucket mashtun into something a little more elegant as well as compact. Aka a "homebrew" clone of a Spiedel Braumeister 20L system.

I will design a custom control system based around the Arduino platform, but before i get cracking i was wondering...

I have a 33L SS pot from our good german friends at Schlenger (that i currently use on the stove) does anyone know of a SS basket that would fit inside?

Can anyone suggest a suitable heating element to add to the pot, i was initially thinking stripping some argos value kettles (2) but then got to thinking about going whole hog and building a Auto, programmable biab system so don't know if there is a single suitable element that people have experience with. (I also want to limit my ability to dremel kill the pot )

[EoinMag]

Funny you should say that, I just watched this video today http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP4LDvKg ... re=related

I'd suggest you contact jimmysuperlative on biabrewer.info, he's the one who built that system.

A Speidel Braumeister on the cheap, sounds good to me

[danbrew]

Not sure about a stainless basket but you could look at buckingham stockpots on ebay/ amazon which are quite cheap. They are quite thin and i imagine a dremel will have no problems. At least that's what i intend to do with my birco - though i might just go with a false bottom and retain the grain bag. The cheap sparging pump on here will do too. I'm also thinking perhaps no need for a pid because heatloss fairly minimal with full volume and one manual check and adjust midway could suffice.

[argon]

If you want an automated BIAB setup... this is how it's done http://www.renesasrulz.com/docs/DOC-1786 and this link also to the same project http://hackaday.com/2011/03/28/automate ... d-on-ever/

[hybrid3y3]

I don't think i'll need quite that much automation... but the metal basket is just the thing i am looking for! =)

[danbrew]

Presumably it's home made though and all that mesh won't come cheap!

I'm probably wrong but on the basis that the diameter of the inner basket will be less than the outer one (by a good few mm) then I'd suggest the sides of the inner basket should be solid rather than able to drain. Solid sides would mean the flow of water must go through the grain bed rather than around it. Maybe not a problem, but I'm going for holes in the bottom only to maximise flow through the grain...

[danbrew]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=32137

This is the pump that I was going to use...

Keep us posted if you find another suitable one(s) or have other suggestions...

[hybrid3y3]

It's still early days (planning stage) for me at the moment, still trying to figure out what heating elements to use! From my searches it seems that the popular choices for running off of a standard kitchen ring are the "value" elements from £5 kettles or the more robust Haden classic type (http://www.heatingelementcompany.co.uk/ ... roduct=293). Now doing a bit of "simple" maths... it's been a while so i had to force ably wake up some brain cells for this part i come up with the following approximations:

Power = Time x Efficiency x Element Power

Power needed = Volume (L) x Specific Heat capacity of water x (EndTemp - StartTemp)

therefore

Time = (Efficiency x Element Power) / Power needed

So...

Time with 1x 2.4Kw element = 67(ish) minutes.
Time with 2x 2.4Kw elements = 34 (ish) minutes.

As i currently use Gas and it takes nearly an hour to raise my strike water to a good temp, and the same again to raise my sparge water let alone the extra 40 or so extra minutes to bring the wort to the boil i will be able to knock a hell of a lot of time off of my current brew as i go through the process of upgrading my current kit to get what i want in the end. (and if i cluck it up then it just gives me a good excuse to get an insulated Schlenger for mark2).

[hybrid3y3]

Presumably it's home made though and all that mesh won't come cheap!

I'm probably wrong but on the basis that the diameter of the inner basket will be less than the outer one (by a good few mm) then I'd suggest the sides of the inner basket should be solid rather than able to drain. Solid sides would mean the flow of water must go through the grain bed rather than around it. Maybe not a problem, but I'm going for holes in the bottom only to maximise flow through the grain...

A second pot suspended inside might be an option, but i had a bugger of a time drilling holes into my Schlenger and ended up having to do a dremmel cut and grind to get the hole for my tank valve connector! So would prefer an option where the amount of SS cutting required is kept to a minimum, as i only have rudimentary tools, no dedicated workshop and hence a PO'd missus everytime i start hacking at SS! =)

[danbrew]

I struggled a bit with understanding side mounted elements when considering how the inner basket would sit inside with them in the way. Mounting them as low as possible would seem to be key. I'd just go for the cheapo £5 kettle elements and then you can upgrade to backer etc. at a later date...

You could also consider the 3kw burco elements which are bottom mounted. I am much happier progressing this design now I have a burco, purely because the bottom mounted element means there is less to consider with basket size. In other words, the size of the basket doesn't need to consider side mounted elements. The inner pot can sit just above to element at the bottom... Again, might not be an issue for you.

Have a look on the calculators page on here too for Andy's heating element calculator - under the strike temp calculator I believe...

[danbrew]

Presumably it's home made though and all that mesh won't come cheap!

I'm probably wrong but on the basis that the diameter of the inner basket will be less than the outer one (by a good few mm) then I'd suggest the sides of the inner basket should be solid rather than able to drain. Solid sides would mean the flow of water must go through the grain bed rather than around it. Maybe not a problem, but I'm going for holes in the bottom only to maximise flow through the grain...

A second pot suspended inside might be an option, but i had a bugger of a time drilling holes into my Schlenger and ended up having to do a dremmel cut and grind to get the hole for my tank valve connector! So would prefer an option where the amount of SS cutting required is kept to a minimum, as i only have rudimentary tools, no dedicated workshop and hence a PO'd missus everytime i start hacking at SS! =)

Trust me, the buckingham stock pots are very thin... I imagine a dremel will have no problems... The nickname for my brewery when I used them was the biscuit tin brewery - available in a variety of sizes too...

[hybrid3y3]

The largest size buckingham i can find is 14/15L unfortunately (for me) i like brewing strong beers (i have an IIPA in the planning with a 7KG+ grain bill) so i think that they might be a little small for me. But Schlenger do make a 21L pot which is d300mm, h300mm which would leave me 25mm from the edge and 50mm from the bottom of my 33L pot. Hopefully this will be enough space for me to reconfigure my tap / hopstrainer combo.

If i use the dremel to cut out some shapes in the bottom of the smaller pot (circle in the centre and 6 triangles) i can add a mesh to create a nice reinforced drain.

So it looks like the Burco 3000W element will be the one to get, i'm also planning to put a water feed in from the bottom and a drain in the bottom to recirculate. =) so for phase 2 it'll be time to start planning the plumbing.

[Aleman]

Don't forget that you will have to raise the bottom of the pot to take into account the 'backside' of the burco element with all the attendant electrical connections . . . . And ideally this should be sealed to IP66 Rating .. . . any spillages and you will have the element connections sat in the puddle. . . . not ideal.

I've used a Thermobox as a HLT using a similar element (Swan water heater) and have the benefit of it fitting inside the false bottom.

[hybrid3y3]

I've just ordered a burco 3000w element from -> http://www.heatingelementcompany.co.uk/ ... roduct=220, my intention is to cut the hole in the bottom of the primary pot then once all screwed in place to cover the screw seal in a heat resistant silicone sealant. I will probably apply this over the electrics as well to be sure, to be sure. If the silicone sealant is a no-go on the electric connections then there is always the permanency of epoxy resin =).

The primary pot will be raised off of the ground by an MDF box, and the element cavity will be waterproofed and have a drain off. The control electronics, power supplies and pumps will sit in a cavity below the back-end element cavity.

[hybrid3y3]

Of course... a thought has just arrived in the ol' noggin... Displacement!

My plans to be able to do a "big" beer in this all in one are going to be a non-starter! there is no way that my 33L pot will be large enough to take a 22L pot full of grain and 22L of boil volume!

Some rethink is required... in the mean-time i'll be pushing on with the conversion to electric, BIAB on-hold for now.