Sourcing a 30cm thermowell for FV

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 12:49 pm

Hi,

I just knocked a brewpi setup to replace my stc1000 and it works well, but I'm struggling to source a thermowell.

I need one like this https://www.brewershardware.com/12-Stai ... TWS12.html

But the chap isn't responding to emails about if he will ship to the uk, and for how much.

Anyone know where I could get such a thing?

Thanks,
Si

byronb · Post by **byronb** » Sun Jul 13, 2014 1:45 pm

Is this to go down into the FV from the lid? The link you sent looks similar to this one but without the stopper:

https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/thermowell-stopper.html

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:53 am

Excellent, thanks....ordered.

I shall soon have fancy graphs of my fermentation temps and be able to program fermentation profiles from the comfort of my ipad

pobrien20 · Post by **pobrien20** » Mon Jul 14, 2014 7:45 pm

Or a slightly cheaper solution (if you have someone who can cut & weld S/steel)

Cut this in half
https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/beer/beer ... steel.html @ £9.69ea

And buy two of these
https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/beer/beer ... ommet.html @ £0.99ea
or
https://www.hopandgrape.co.uk/silicone-bungs.html @ £1.50ea

Now you have the same as the £18.50 version, for half the price & a spare for you or your mate.

You'll need to remove the s/steel sleeve from the end of the DS18B20 sensor (they usually slide off on the cheaper ones) to fit in the bent end, works fine though.

Once you use the BrewPi, a STC1000 looks medieval in comparison.

gibbiem · Post by **gibbiem** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 12:56 pm

Read about this Brewpi before. Is there a way to use it alongside an STC1000?

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:33 pm

Not sure why you would want to do that?

There is no way to link the two if that's what you mean. If your interested in hacking your stc1000, you can flash it with new firmware that allows preprogrammed temp schedules. I.e 20 for 2 days, then 18 for 12 then crash it. But this doesn't allow remote monitoring or anything like that. The stc1000 is as about as simple as can be.

But I would just look at brewpi. For what its worth, I haven't bought their shield, and already had an rpi. S I just got an ardinio and a relay to switch the plugs. Soldering it is pretty much be same as the stc1000 then and it cost me 20quid.....excluding the thermowell

In any case, this is what I followed:

http://fuzzelogicbrewing.blogspot.co.uk ... cheap.html

It's about to ferment my heffe weizen

Si

gibbiem · Post by **gibbiem** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:04 pm

Just so I dont have to buy another relay really. That new firmware sounds decent, makes it a bit more automated. Not really bothered about monitoring to that level but setting different programs would be good. Cheers

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 3:49 pm

Cool, then this looks perfect for you

http://hackaday.com/2014/03/15/temperat ... e-upgrade/

Though....I think you need an ardinio to flash it.

The actual project is hosted here: https://github.com/matsstaff/stc1000p

Si

gibbiem · Post by **gibbiem** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 4:02 pm

Seems like a bit of a mess on actually! haha! if I could USB to a PC and flash firmware that way I would. Dont have an ardinio or anything

simpleton · Post by **simpleton** » Tue Jul 15, 2014 6:27 pm

Nah, it's a great excuse to buy a ardinio

.

In any case, the new STC1000 firmware only really adds the ability to program a schedule which is useful, but I am much more interested in logging of my brews, so went with brewpi. Not so much for the graphs (although very pretty), more so I have a log of past brews, how long I fermented for and at exactly what temp throughout.

After 30 brews, I'm starting to realise that will be useful.

Also being able to check temps remotely, and set it remotely. And have it tell me if something is wrong (this I will have to add myself as brewpi doesnt yet support it, though I do like python so will add it myself).

Next step, bubble counter for the blowoff

Si

Fil · Post by **Fil** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 4:51 am

Before you commit to a thermowell measuring the temp at the centre of the FV can i throw a spanner in the works and suggest that it might be preferable to monitor the temperature closer to the point at which you are effecting any change, and in a fridge using air to transfer temperature changes that would be closer to the wall of the vessel.

If the fermentation is very active then the co2 rising should mix the liquid well distributing the temperature change fairly evenly, but if the beer is still then any change will need to penetrate the still mass of the liquid between the wall and sensor which could overheat the bulk closer to the side?

With the temperature monitored closer to where the effect is applied you may effect change in smaller increments but you should avoid over heating or cooling and the inevitable cycling either would cause.

My only backup for this is a quick test with still water in a metal pot having heat applied by a heat cable wrapped round the pot side, i periodically measured the temperature close to the pot edge and in the centre and recorded a significant difference over a few hours testing one evening.

pobrien20 · Post by **pobrien20** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:44 am

Fil wrote:Before you commit to a thermowell measuring the temp at the centre of the FV can i throw a spanner in the works and suggest that it might be preferable to monitor the temperature closer to the point at which you are effecting any change, and in a fridge using air to transfer temperature changes that would be closer to the wall of the vessel.

The handy thing with the BrewPi is that it uses two sensors*, one in the beer & one in the fridge/ferment chamber.

It then using a PID (pixie magic), it calculates the target temperature for the heating & cooling to prevent massive swings that might harm the beer.

So by having thermowell in beer, it gives a much better monitor & control for the BrewPi system.

With other controllers, e.g. STC1000 with only one sensor, the sensor should be placed closer to the heat source, taped to side of FV with some insulation otherwise, if the sensor is in the beer, the controller will continue to heat/cool the air in the chamber way past a safe level (for the beer) as the middle beer temp catches up.

* actually can handle more, e.g. Room temp, etc

Fil · Post by **Fil** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 1:16 pm

go on then

add another 1 wire sensor and plot the perimeter temp too. prove me wrong.. tho as your recording the fridge temp a simple query will tell you the max temp sustained in the fridge which should indicate if im blowing out the wrong end

pobrien20 · Post by **pobrien20** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:01 pm

Your right, there will be a cycling effect in heating/cooling, the BrewPi tries to minimise the effect on the beer mass rather than the air. With only one sensor your measure either beer temp or air temp and allow/put up with the variation in the heat cycling.

The handy thing with the BrewPi, it/you can set max fridge/chamber temp which means it only heats up to set temp, e.g. won't let fridge go over 24C. It switches heater on/off to maintain the 24C as beer catches up to its set temp 18C.

Previously I used a STC with the probe in the beer and was a bit surprised when I melted the side & roof of the fridge with a 60W ceramic bulb, probe was reacting very slowly to beer warming as heater was on, must have been v hot to melt the plastic in the fridge (that batch turned out crap). It's always that law of diminishing returns, where you can add loads of sensors and direct heaters, etc but for home brew the BrewPi is a good step-up from the STC.

There will always be a slight difference between centre of FV and outside, keeping a constant temp in fermenting will help produce a good beer, the BrewPi just makes it easy enough to use & it is a nice gadgety thing anyway

gibbiem · Post by **gibbiem** » Wed Jul 16, 2014 2:05 pm

I'm sure this is a step too far.... Did Trappist monks have this sort of kit? haha

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