what's the next step from kits and plastic?

[Hudson1984]

Hi all,

so another lockdown...which means I'll be drinking and brewing more

I was wondering, what the next phase is from kits and brewing in plastic fermenters? I've seen some of your setups and blimy!!

I would like to eventually have a bash at my own brews from scratch and be a bit less reliant on kits, but it's pretty daunting! I don't really know where to go first, don't want to jump into buying really expensive gear and get the wrong thing.

I've seen grainfathers and variations of that, but a bit unsure if this is the direction I should be aiming for, seen conicles and again, unsure if that's the next step.

I'd like to concentrate on stout. The wine kits are fine for my needs, equally, the cider kits a fine for me. I've got the brewfridge working well so i'd keep doing kits for that. But I do hanker for a bit more from the hobby, a little more involvement, a little more control. Kits are great, but I dunno, feels a bit like putting a ready meal in the oven and saying i'm a cook!

I live on the east coast, theirs loads of places to get Malt, and in my last job I dealt with maltings regularly so think i'd be able to buy direct from them which is handy for ingredients.

So. Stout - from scratch - what equipment should I be after? would a grainfather be a good choice

[Cobnut]

My journey has been kits --> BIAB (AG) --> Grainfather (AG).

BIAB used a 30L tea urn bought online for around £60-70, changed the crappy tap for a ball valve tap from Malt Miller, insulated with a £5 foil backed camping mat from supermarket and a grain bag from (probably) Malt Miller.

I also made an immersion chiller from a 10m reel of 10mm copper tubing and a few hose fittings.

Made some decent beers with this. Fermented in a 25L plastic bucket.

Upgraded to a GF a couple of years ago and I'm still content with the GF.

Fermenter was upgraded to a 35L fermentasaurus which allows me to ferment under pressure (search for this on JBK) - mostly beneficial for brewing lagers quicker.

Other members of local HBC have bought Karsteins (cheaper than GF, but similar - although no pump so recirculation via "jugging") and have been happy enough with them.

I'm sure there will be others on here who would argue in favour of 3 vessel systems and I can't argue against that as I haven't really brewed in that way, but it probably needs more space.

GF and its' ilk are glorified BIAB systems where the "bag" is a stainless steel tube with perforated bottom and top plates.

If money is an issue - or you want to spend it elsewhere - you can do fine with a tea urn and a bag IMO.

If you like shiny stuff and have the cash, GF type systems have a lot going for them.

[Hudson1984]

I do like shiny stuff.

It's not so much money is no object, but i'd be a bit against spending £70 on an urn, to then not use it once I've bought the GF - so may as well make the leap off the bat....that's what I'm telling myself anyway.

going to need more fermenting space though!!

[bryanferry]

I do like shiny stuff.

It's not so much money is no object, but i'd be a bit against spending £70 on an urn, to then not use it once I've bought the GF - so may as well make the leap off the bat....that's what I'm telling myself anyway.

going to need more fermenting space though!!

You'll probably end up still using the urn for sparge water on the GF.

Local brewing groups are always an excellent source of information that's local to you. (If they're like me) they'll have a spare pile of brewing equipment as the fever purchases of upgrades took hold. As others have done with me, I'm always happy to pass on equipment.

[Cobnut]

You'll probably end up still using the urn for sparge water on the GF.

This is exactly what I do.

[Jocky]

Find a local club. Someone there will be able to loan you equipment, orr you can go around to another brewer's house, make the wort on their kit and then ferment it at your home. You might find the 5+ hour brew day more of a pain than you care for.

Another option not yet mentioned is to go to extract brewing first, where you use liquid or dry malt extract, then add your choice of hops to boil. This way you can think about making your own recipe.

[McMullan]

Quite a few try to turn pro, briefly

[Hudson1984]

Quite a few try to turn pro, briefly

Oh I’ve zero interest in turning pro. This is and will always be a hobby. Just like to be a bit more involved is all. The kits I’ve used have given decent results but it would be fun to try my hand at a bit more of the process. Again, no interest in turning commercial or “pro” I enjoy the job I have.

I’ll have a look around see if there are some local clubs. All a bit tricky with Covid sadly

[Kingfisher4]

Find a local club. Someone there will be able to loan you equipment, orr you can go around to another brewer's house, make the wort on their kit and then ferment it at your home. You might find the 5+ hour brew day more of a pain than you care for.

Excellent advice usually, unfortunately, the latest lockdown probably prevents that, dependent upon your location. I have promised to do exactly that with a friend who is interested in taking the plunge, probably straight for Grainfather and all grain. We will have to arrange in December now.

I have been brewing almost 3 years, straight in with all Grain and grainfather And the most unexpected consequence has been that my taste in beer has changed radically. I now preferentially Brew porters and stout! They are much better than the commercially readily available bottles or cans and equal many of the best small brewery casks.

Whether you decide on BIAB or GF type as the next step you will not regret it.

[Hudson1984]

Find a local club. Someone there will be able to loan you equipment, orr you can go around to another brewer's house, make the wort on their kit and then ferment it at your home. You might find the 5+ hour brew day more of a pain than you care for.

Excellent advice usually, unfortunately, the latest lockdown probably prevents that, dependent upon your location. I have promised to do exactly that with a friend who is interested in taking the plunge, probably straight for Grainfather and all grain. We will have to arrange in December now.

I have been brewing almost 3 years, straight in with all Grain and grainfather And the most unexpected consequence has been that my taste in beer has changed radically. I now preferentially Brew porters and stout! They are much better than the commercially readily available bottles or cans and equal many of the best small brewery casks.

Where you decide on BIAB or GF type as the next step you will not regret it.

Indeed, it’s the problem I’m facing really but lots worse off than me so can’t complain.

I’ll definitely be aiming to play with stout and porter more than anything. I don’t mind a good bitter but craft ales don’t really do anything for me. That may change though - as you suggest, taste may well change there.

I agree the 5 hour brew day may become problematic, it’s tricky to find 5 straight hours out of a day. But I work for myself from home so have to plan a day off on brew days.

[McMullan]

Quite a few try to turn pro, briefly

Oh I’ve zero interest in turning pro. This is and will always be a hobby. Just like to be a bit more involved is all. The kits I’ve used have given decent results but it would be fun to try my hand at a bit more of the process. Again, no interest in turning commercial or “pro” I enjoy the job I have.

I’ll have a look around see if there are some local clubs. All a bit tricky with Covid sadly

Home brewing can be as cheap or as expensive as you like. Quality wise, it won't necessarily improve the beer if a small fortune is spent on shiny things. The secret to good beer, extract or all-grain, is temperature control for fermentation, yeast management, keeping things clean and sanitary generally and looking after your liver. Most investments in these areas are worthwhile. Other stuff is mainly superfluous. If you want to impress your mates with a big shiny bucket there's no shortage of people queuing up to sell you one for everything they can take you for and more. As you get older you might want to invest in things that make brew day a lot easier.

[Jocky]

There's ways to split up the brew day.

I set up the night before and put the water heating on a timer. Come the morning it means I just dough in and then walk away and get on with my day for an hour, but it can be longer if needed.

Lautering and batch sparge takes about 20 minutes, then you put it all on to boil and basically can set a timer for when you need to drop hops in etc, so you need to be nearby, but not watching anything.

At the end of the boil chilling takes about 20 minutes, and then again you can walk away for a bit, or spend 10 minutes transferring to the fermenter.

At that point you just need to clean things. I prefer to get on with it, but you can instead leave it for a few hours if you need.

[Kingfisher4]

I don’t have experience of other systems, but you will find that there is plenty of time within the overall five-ish hour brew day with the Grainfather for example that you can devote to other tasks whilst waiting for it to do its thing!

Don’t assume that it is five non-stop dedicated hours, particularly once you get used to the system.

[f00b4r]

Also, maybe make an early start as the first couple of times may take a little longer as you get your head around the process.

[Hudson1984]

I don’t have experience of other systems, but you will find that there is plenty of time within the overall five-ish hour brew day with the Grainfather for example that you can devote to other tasks whilst waiting for it to do its thing!

Don’t assume that it is five non-stop dedicated hours, particularly once you get used to the system.

I did indeed assume that's what you all meant so that's handy, it's more that this would be a weekend thing and weekends are dedicated to family time as I work most of the day throughout the week - as most do.

so that's good, a bit here and there works perfectly.

i'll get the kegerator working and see how these batches turn out and go from there, I've never carbonated before so this is my first hurdle, then i'll see about making the next jump