FV cooling, outer coil or inner submerged?

[barneey]

Another one of those beer porn pictures again, just when I think I`ve made my mind up!!!

V nice fabriacation Scooby.

[Scooby]

Ah, I think that's the one I was dimly remembering - quality job!!

The more I think on this, the more I like the idea of the FV being removable from the cooling lines/lid. For me, I think its going to come down to if my FVs are fixed in place or not.

Edit: I also just remembered this post, presumably using a coil from a remote cooler rather than a shelf cooler as it looks huge:

The product coils can clearly work, then!

Cheers
Kev

Yes, and the cooling is also very rapid, because of pictures like that and the possible detrimental effect on the yeast I cool in 2-3c stages over an extended period.

Edit I've just started cooling a batch and It dropped 1C from 19C in 3mins. During normal fermenting with the cooling hysteresis set to 0.3C the
cooling pump runs for about 30secs.

[liquidman]

Poor bloke -frozen to hands!

[Kev888]

Yes, and the cooling is also very rapid, because of pictures like that and the possible detrimental effect on the yeast I cool in 2-3c stages over an extended period.
Edit I've just started cooling a batch and It dropped 1C from 19C in 3mins. During normal fermenting with the cooling hysteresis set to 0.3C the
cooling pump runs for about 30secs.

Ah good point! Crikey, its a world away from my current fridge setup - admittedly they're 85L batches, but it can take 'days' for me to crash cool after fermentation so over-doing it wasn't even on my radar.

Cheers
Kev

[orlando]

Dunc, how low can the hose option get you to - on what volume?

Well, I'm currently only brewing 20-22L lengths, but the limit is really set by the volume of coolant, the temperature you can get it down to, and the thermal conductivity of the beer. I could certainly get down to ~10 degrees easily enough during active fermentation whilst only swapping out 2 bottles of ice twice a day. I don't crash cool so I've never tried getting it any colder, but with enough ice and enough insulation, I'm sure it could be done. If you had a proper chiller I don't see why you couldn't get it down to lagering temperatures if you wanted, although condensation might become an issue depending on the location. As for the rate at which you can cool, that's probably going to be limited by the thermal conductivity of the beer itself. With a really cold reservoir, I can cool at anything up to 1 degree per hour - and I could easily improve that by using a longer cooling coil. It's far more efficient than using a fridge.

I'm still groping my way to understanding all of this stuff so what I'm about to write might be exposing more of my ignorance and naievety so forgive me if it comes out wrong, but even if you are right about efficiency, I can't challenge you on that, I don't see how all this is easier than a fridge. I set my STC 1000 to any temperature down to approaching zero and the fridge gets on with it. It strikes me that other routes are too complicated even if there are advantages, which at the moment I don't see for the sort of brew lengths you are working with. Maybe you can enlighten me.

[jat147]

Thanks Scooby, that is just what I was thinking of.
Just need to find the wifes' credit card card now...

[Scooby]

Can't speak for other methods mentioned but I just set the TC10 like you and away it goes.

IMO a fridge is a very 'clunky' method of fv temp control. They're slow to respond, takes up space and can't easily be moved.
Fridges are cheap and easy to get so are a good choice in that respect, and they do maintain constant temps

If you can pick up a chiller cheaply, a remote cooling/heating system is a much more elegant and flexible solution that is simple and inexpensive to put together.
I used a simple 'U' bend of stainless tube in my first one and Steve just used copper in his simple design.

[Scooby]

Thanks Scooby, that is just what I was thinking of.
Just need to find the wifes' credit card card now...

Cheers, good luck with the card and I hope you can pounce on the statement when it arrives.

[barneey]

Well I`m going to have ago with a coil I already have

or alter the existing chiller coil I have

at least this way i wont have the invoice credit / hide the parcel from the Mrs problem.

The clad stainless chiller project is now a go, + will also try the tube on the outside method.

Thats it then no more building.........

Thanks for all the ideas

[Scooby]

That's a monter coil!!! What size batch will you be cooling?

It's worth mentioning that from my experience the coil need only be a short length and then be submersed in the top 1/2 of the fermenting wort. Thermal currents do the rest.

In the video by Chris mentioned by Goulders earlier in this thread his 22mm pipe cooling probe, (you can see this at 5:27) has an 8mm feed in from the top and reaching almost
the bottom of the pipe and a return from the side, that's only about 35-40cms long and was very effective My first probe was only a simple 'U' and worked fine.

[gregorach]

I'm still groping my way to understanding all of this stuff so what I'm about to write might be exposing more of my ignorance and naievety so forgive me if it comes out wrong, but even if you are right about efficiency, I can't challenge you on that, I don't see how all this is easier than a fridge. I set my STC 1000 to any temperature down to approaching zero and the fridge gets on with it. It strikes me that other routes are too complicated even if there are advantages, which at the moment I don't see for the sort of brew lengths you are working with. Maybe you can enlighten me.

Did I say it was easier? No, it's not - but it is better. I get very precise control with very little overshoot and minimal inputs, because I can run it off a calibrated PID with a class B PT100 sensor. As a bonus, my PID has a programmable ramping feature, so I can programme a ramp rate (down to 0.1 deg C per hour) and end point and the controller will take care of it. PID control would kill a fridge compressor in short order, and the combination of slow response and high cooling load means that you are likely to end up with quite large overshoots, even if you're not actually seeing them because of your sensor placement.

Also, I simply don't have space for another fridge, and as a committed greenie, I can't really justify the extra electricity to myself. I'm running too many fridges for one man already...

[barneey]

That's a monter coil!!! What size batch will you be cooling?

The first round coil is / was my coil for cooling boiling wort (80ltrpot), so will probadly leave it alone. The second square one I`ve had laying around for sometime, so will experiement with that first by cutting / separating the inner and outer coils then having a play with the pipebenders etc to achieve the 3D result.

Great builds by the way.

Cheers

[darkonnis]

i actually had a question about these coolers, and the maxi 110 as i've never seen one in person to have a tinker :O
I'm guessing the maxi cools things quite well on its own? IE it doesnt constantly required baths of ice and the such to stay cold? Sorry if thats an obvious question but I've noticed a few people talking about changing water a few times a day and adding ice to it etc.
Just trying to better understand how it works before i go looking at them and adding it to the ever growing beer wishlist!
Cook

[Blackaddler]

i actually had a question about these coolers, and the maxi 110 as i've never seen one in person to have a tinker :O

OK, so here's some pics of the internals...

Maxi 110 with the lid off...


Compressor [fridge type] on the left, water bath with pump [red fan on top] on the right.
The two upturned s/s tubes on the front are for the python pump water recirculation.
The other two straight tubes are the product [beer/whatever] coil, and are not pumped internally.

The rest of the pics are of a Maxi 210, which is pretty much the same, only slightly larger.

Here's the pump/agitator pulled out. The agitator [little propeller] stops the bath from freezing solid.



Now with the water bath lid off, you can see the [2] s/s product coils and the copper refridgerant coil.



Bath and product coils removed for cleaning, the copper coils are easier to see.





Cleaned up bath, without the lid on...



Gives you an idea how it all works, anyway.

[darkonnis]

Aha, i see! Thanks mate that answers quite a few questions ... poor wallet, it has been nice knowing you :D
Don't one of these just yet but at the rate things are going it won't be long... they're quite impressive bits of kit actually considering they don't appear to be all that much
Cook