another daft idea...

[darkonnis]

Not really, copper is good for fermentation (a little bit). Given the contact time I wouldn't be too worried, copper like iron isn't dangerous and so fars I can see there does not appear to any limit to how much you can ingest short of eating clumps of it. You also need to remember we call a brewing boiler a copper because the old ones were copper, did the old boys no harm and the fact that bespoke systems still still have copper parts today means there is still no danger thats known.

Being honest mate, build the hot side for as little money as you can and focus entirely on the cold side. Fermentation doesn't look as cool, nor does it take any interaction from you, however thats where the magic happens. I'm realising this far far too late on (I realised a while a go but I only jsut have the funds to do it now I've spent it all on a shiney hot side). Of course if you can afford to do it in shiney and have the space for the extra room it will take up then why not, but I wouldn't expect better beer unfortunately, in fact given the purpose of a heat exchanger I'd think it would be worse.

[Fil]

thanks for the thouhtfull input
OK there goes that theory copper is ok SS is certainly not as effective in conducting heat.. but since ive started hehe..

Cant fault the logic regarding the cold side of things either.. and perhaps the newer bigger brewkit isnt the cheapest build, i have enjoyed it and the journey even it it is dragging on a bit now.. ive stil spent no where near the cash a few pals throw at thier fishing gear, and they still sit n drink me beer ive not had a single fish supper of anyone yet

[Fil]

Well i ebayed a few bits and the last arrived this morning, just spent the last 1/2 hour core-ing bungs, thankfully the .2mm wall of the ss tube is quite sharp, the hole in the holed bungs id about 3mm wide !!

!/2 way there.. when ive cut the jacket tubes i will take a snap or 2, but the one jacket and tube length i have fabricated so far looks very promising. if i cqan keep my cutting errors down i may have stage 1 done today..... back to the bung cores....

[Fil]

Good time for a break, my drill battery died while drilling the guide holes in the end braces, so while thats charging i took a couple of snaps of the progress so far..

i think for full performance i will need a 12m length i am building a 6m length to start with to test .. it should be easy enogh to expand by replicating what ive done so far however its not turned out that cheap, still cjeaper than importing the us copper job tho.

Materials

1" Id pvc tube - i had to buy 2m as i had some.
22mm end feed copper Ts x 24 well 25 cos i killed one..
19 x 24mm bungs x 24 well 25 as above
24 x 32mm jubilee clips
2 x ss sink strainers quid each car boot sale...
12 x 500mm x 10mm x 0.2mm SS tubes

still to source 22mm copper tube to join jackets for flow thru.and determine each length needed and total upto 2m ?



you may be able to see the few holes i opened in the 1st ss sink strainer, and the rest maked for drilling, 12 stepping up one side, leaving the capacity for a further 12 up the other side if needed.

the work product of this evening

12 x cooling jackets on SS beer transport tubes, when ive drilled thru the 2 ss strainer plates, i will sus the length of copper pipe to join the jacket Ts

i was going to use the same pvc tube and jubilee clips but the clips are expensive compared to a few cm of copper tube, and the solid straight connection will help correct some of the didgy bung cores i cut thru..

to hold the plates together to staret with i wi9ll just chain a few cable ties to create tension, if successful i will use studding and bolts at each corner

[Belter]

Fil with regard to those jubilee clips. Not sure what you're doing here but sometimes stainless jubilee clips still have carbon steel screws. There is one seller on eBay IIRC that sells full stainless jubilee clips but they're about £1 each.

[Fil]

Cheers Belter but the jubilee clips are sealing the pvc water jackets to the copper Ts externally, and if my plumbings tight should remain dry, But they are SS ones anyway as i got em locally and balked at the price of 80p each the fact they are all ss was the selling point.., but when i told em how many i wanted i got 25 for a tenner rhreaten ebay in a local shop and u get a price offer these days...


having fun at the moment as soon as i get 6 tubes between the end plates they start falling out with every new addition.. ha... need more hands and ive been left alone to play....

[EccentricDyslexic]

Is this gonna be a 'brew sculpture'

Shiny!

Steve

[Fil]

ive given up tessellating it all in between the end plates and trying to hold it together wth cable ties its a 3 handed job alright,, but i have got 2 in so i can measure the gap for the joining tubes, and when all joined will be one unit not 12 individual pipes so should slot in easier, also i need to clean the sharp burrs off the back side if my ss drill holes. i will also cut a base plate out of board to the correct size which should add enough stability to anchor the top with studs n bolts as planned.

So allowing 1.5cm deph per end for the solder joint and a gap of 2.4cm between pipes it loks like 12 x 5.5cm copper joining tubes will be needed...



not done a lot of soldering but have flux but thats a job for another day....

so far so good.. the 1mm walled silicone tube i got to join the beer transport tubes is too thin and kinks in the space i have between tubes, so will be looking for a thicker walled tube .. then its all go..

[Fil]

Decided to carry on a bit longer, and cut the copper joining tubes and dry fitted the 'bird' outside of the 'cage'...

i also fitted one silicone tubelet to connect the SS tubes to illustrate the kink, its 10mm od 1mm thick tube, i think i need a slightly larger diameter and thicker wall 2mm perhaps?




I did try fitting it in the cage but just ended up cutting my fingers on the sharp burs at the back end of the holes i drilled, see middle of top tube in pic 1 for real blood i left em unsanded in the hope they would grip the bungs not cut me to bits...

although i tried to cut the joints to the same spec, i will need to dry fit and mark the depth for each fitting as some need a wee pull out to fit the 8cm gap. all part of the fun tho..

once soldered and the jubilee clips tight it may not even need the cage?

conclusion so far,, longer tubes would be a lot cheaper 2 3m lengths or 3 2m lengths would save a lot on copper, bungs and jubilee clips!! lets just hope it works. the actual length of SS tube chilled is, just under 5 1/2 m when the length covered by bung and exposed each end is counted..

the cost so far..

SS tube 6m £24
copper T's £20
jubilee clips £10
bungs £15 with 6 spares
2m of pvc tube and 2 x 22mm to 15mm endfeed/solder ring reducers £11.65, so add £12 for 12 x 40cm lengths of pvc tube

!!!!!! £95 !!!!! ouch

plus the cost of the silicone tube to connect. it had better bloody work if it does then the ability to brush thru and inspect the beer carrying tubes will be worth it .

[EccentricDyslexic]

Will be interesting way to check to see if wizz, PBW or whatever does really clean the insides of our CFC!

Steve

[darkonnis]

I also bought the bits to make one of these as much for through flow than ease of cleaning. Cost me over a £100 by the time i bought the copper pipes in both sizes. I haven't yet decided how long its going to be, I was thinking 3m would be long enough given that I'd have much better water flow.... not entirely sure either which way though. I'll definitely be doing a hot water test prior to trying it with beer. What would be super handy is a thermometer on the outlet of the beer. I know theres the blichman thingy but I reckon a T piece with a thermometer in would be better, one less thing to clean, considering this comes to bits (which it will every brewday close) and I'm in the process of masterminding a hoprocket out of a jamjar I really dont want "extra" kit to clean, I just want kit to do "extra stuff".

Eccentric, you still wont see if those chemicals work with this because there are no nooks or crannies in this design, that being the point of it. I've tried a few and oxiclean seems to get the most out of the plates compared to the others.

[Fil]

the us product boasts chilling down 5 gallons to 14c with tap water in 13 mins recirculating back into the kettle.. i assume a tap water temp below 14c in the test area.... its less than 12ft (3.6m) of 5/8" (16mm?) jacketed copper transport tube in a 7/8" (22mm?) jacket..

im using 18ft+ of thinner 10mm od tube with a thinner 0.2mm wall so fingers crossed

if its good enough to chill 60l in 40mins or less to 20 something i will be over the moon...

currently i stir like mad for a good half hour plus to chill over the IC with 23l batches..

post upgrade i dont think i can use the same IC with 60l+ and still have energy for the clean up

[EccentricDyslexic]

Eccentric, you still wont see if those chemicals work with this because there are no nooks or crannies in this design, that being the point of it. I've tried a few and oxiclean seems to get the most out of the plates compared to the others.

Hi dark, what I mean is, if you can pull a blob of cotton wool through and it is spotless then it is cleaning the insides of the pipe. I use caustic, PBW and/or wiz and flush through with boiling water then starsan to finish. Not had any problems, but haven't tried the cotton wool either.....

Steve

[darkonnis]

i see, i was thinking you meant you'd see how much stuff the chemicals removed? Plate chillers for example are a nightmare simply because they have "voids" around the inlet/outlet of each plate which particulates gather in because the flow pushes them there. But yes, visible and accessible cleaning has got to be the way forward.

[Fil]

Ha discovered why it was a sod to fit in the cage when dry fitted , even tho i had measured my copper cuts pretty accurately at 6.2mm to line up with the 10mm holes in the end plates, it seems they penetrate to slightly different depths into the Ts hmmm.



so much for precision..

i shall open up the end plate holes to 12-13mm easier than tayloring each H.
started to rain so soldering is off for now,
So i played with a turbulance guide in the cooling jaclet. old bit of coax..