Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

[Matt in Birdham]

EDIT - I've backed off the pressure to about 0.5psi which is about as low as I can get the gauge to register pressure. I'm thinking that all the rig needs to do for the moment is to prevent a vacuum, whilst minimising the risk of CO2 loss and cylinder drain. So I think this means aiming for the lowest pressure possible....although it's been a long day and I have probably missed something!!!

Exactly - that is all that is needed. I suppose the FV is going to be the opposite of a corny, where high-pressure helps the seal. If you can hear hissing, then I guess you have found the leak Might be worth some gently bending of the clips to see if you can get the seal tighter, or perhaps a less "destructive" method might be to pad the top of the lid with something so that the clips have a bit more depth to grab on to? Looking forward to giving mine a try tomorrow - perfect timing, since I have a batch ready to crash.

[orlando]

In an ideal world I'd pressure transfer to a corny keg for secondary and dry hopping under co2 pressure.

Something like this?




Uses one of these that Lardy had made up for me.

[Matt in Birdham]

Here's an interesting snippet (from here).

If your CO2 has a 99.5% purity, then the impurity is 0.5%. For purchased CO2, the assumption is that the impurity is always air, so only 1/5 of the impurity – 0.1% — should be oxygen. If you were to add to your beer one Volume of CO2 with an impurity of 0.1% O2, it would increase your oxygen concentration by a whopping 1,420 ppb.

It would be interesting to know what grade CO2 we are getting.
Perhaps verging into the hysterical/paranoid to be worried about this, but I am absolutely convinced that a couple of simple pales I brewed recently suffered badly from oxidation somewhere between FV and first keg pour (10 days). Much more caramel to the cystal, loss of hop "freshness". First suspect is cold crash and transfer but CO2 purity could be something to consider. Perhaps one reason why the LODO brigade are so fixated on natural keg carbonation (and of course, that would be the simplest solution).

[Jocky]

In an ideal world I'd pressure transfer to a corny keg for secondary and dry hopping under co2 pressure.

Something like this?


]

Can't you transfer via the liquid post?

[Matt in Birdham]

OK so this has arrived and first impressions are very favourable. A really solid and compact bit of kit that feels very well made. It is all metal apart from the dial and gaskets (metal knob as well, although it doesn't look it in the pics). There's not a lot of travel between off and max, however (max on the dial is 30 psi).
Have put it on my fermenter and let some gas in. You can hear the gas going in, and the PRV on the chronical starts leaking around the edges at about 1.5-2psi, so I just turned the regulator off at this point and left it. Two hours later and there was still pressure left when I lifted the prv, so I am happy enough with that. Will probably just give it the odd blast as I chill but leave it off between times - hopefully the FV can withstand a bit of negative pressure as it cools if I don't get to it in time..

The regulator:


Need to sort out a better way of supporting the cylinder:

[orlando]

Can't you transfer via the liquid post?

I've never tried that. Always thought I should keep an eye on it filling so I don't overfill, guess I couldn't. I have a Mild that I want to keg in a couple of days so might just give it a go, I can take advantage of blasting in some CO2 first, certainly helps with oxidation issues. Thanks good tip.

[donchiquon]

Can't you transfer via the liquid post?

I've never tried that. Always thought I should keep an eye on it filling so I don't overfill, guess I couldn't. I have a Mild that I want to keg in a couple of days so might just give it a go, I can take advantage of blasting in some CO2 first, certainly helps with oxidation issues. Thanks good tip.

I'm kegging tomorrow and was planning to try this. The issue is overfilling. I've read a few solutions, weighing scales, keg-and-ball level measure, and finally the simplest (which I thought I would try) which was to attach a grey gas disco to the IN post. Apparently you can hear (sounds unlikely but I'll give it a try) the foam from the top of the pushed beer start to rise up the gas tube.

If this fails and I get a squirt of beer I'll have a sanitised turkey baster on hand to drain a little of the beer off.

....unless anyone has any better suggestions!

[Matt in Birdham]

I'm kegging tomorrow and was planning to try this. The issue is overfilling. I've read a few solutions, weighing scales, keg-and-ball level measure, and finally the simplest (which I thought I would try) which was to attach a grey gas disco to the IN post. Apparently you can hear (sounds unlikely but I'll give it a try) the foam from the top of the pushed beer start to rise up the gas tube.

If this fails and I get a squirt of beer I'll have a sanitised turkey baster on hand to drain a little of the beer off.

....unless anyone has any better suggestions!

This is something I've been mulling as well. I figured weighing was how most people did it, but perhaps a little hit and miss. The gas post thing sounds intriguing - perhaps worth a dummy run with water first?
Has anyone got any bright ideas on how to either dry hop or add gelatin to a closed transfer?

[jaroporter]

right, three kegs..

first with 20L starsan.
push starsan to second keg with enough co2 to move 20L liquid
now we have one keg of "20L co2" and one of 20L starsan
push beer to first keg, displacing co2 into second, which displaces starsan into third. could possibly have the top off the last keg or use slightly more starsan than beer..
but when starsan overflows/reaches top of third keg you're good in the first!

hows that for overcomplicating? i've been thinking on this issue myself (20L into 2x10L) but that just clicked maybe not quite half serious into my head as i'm typing so i probably haven't thought it through and am gonna look silly now but i'm in a hurry to pub anyways so heyho..

[Matt in Birdham]

right, three kegs..

first with 20L starsan.
push starsan to second keg with enough co2 to move 20L liquid
now we have one keg of "20L co2" and one of 20L starsan
push beer to first keg, displacing co2 into second, which displaces starsan into third. could possibly have the top off the last keg or use slightly more starsan than beer..
but when starsan overflows/reaches top of third keg you're good in the first!

hows that for overcomplicating? i've been thinking on this issue myself (20L into 2x10L) but that just clicked maybe not quite half serious into my head as i'm typing so i probably haven't thought it through and am gonna look silly now but i'm in a hurry to pub anyways so heyho..

I think this might be genius!

[jaroporter]

Okay, hops..

Oil in fv before transfer, or in teaball in keg before transfer. Token purge co2 in through liquid out through gas before counter pressure transfer. May preclude use of starsan as a transfer tool, although if it was only for a few seconds as hops are suspended at top you might think a little starsan hop soak is no worry..

Regards your original concept ive actually been thinking bout it for no chilling then fermenting in eurokegs.

..reading my posts back you wouldn't believe i'm actually very short on kegs..

[Matt in Birdham]

OK here's another thought. Does it matter if your gas tube is below the liquid when carbonating? If it doesn't, then you can simply attach a gas disconnect to the receiving keg instead of holding the PRV open. When the beer hits the bottom of the dib tube, it will be forced out of the gas connector - even though there will still be CO2 in the headspace. You can stop the transfer at this point, but you will be above the line of the gas in tube by a few mm. Will it matter?

Here's a vid where the guy just uses the condensation line as a fill indicator - not sure if this will work given current weather conditions, but it might if the beer is cold enough:

[youtube]pCTa-qo3s8Y[/youtube]

[Rhodesy]

Get one of these Calor gas style regulators, mentioned earlier in the thread. This one is set up for duties as a cask breather but it could do the same job you want.

Which JG fitting are you using on the gas in side?

[donchiquon]

OK here's another thought. Does it matter if your gas tube is below the liquid when carbonating? If it doesn't, then you can simply attach a gas disconnect to the receiving keg instead of holding the PRV open. When the beer hits the bottom of the dib tube, it will be forced out of the gas connector - even though there will still be CO2 in the headspace. You can stop the transfer at this point, but you will be above the line of the gas in tube by a few mm. Will it matter?

What did we ever do before Google.....I just turned up this after an hours searching (I just didn't like that bit about listening for the foam! )

"Stick a small block of wood under the beer-in side and then put a gas disconnect on the gas-in side with a piece of tubing going into a glass/bottle/bucket. Keep the pressure relief valve closed. When the beer reaches the gas dip tube, beer will come out (duh! ). Stop the beer flow and switch to the second keg.

The reason for the small block of wood is so the beer level isn't above the gas dip tube -- if it is (ie, the keg is overfilled), you can sometimes/often get beer flowing back into the gas line when you hook it up.

Advantages of this way are you get a sample of beer to test and drink and your system truly is closed -- you don't have to open the lid to see where the level is."

.....genius!

As for the hops and gelatin, I was planning just to add both to a star-sanned keg (hops in a bag with dental floss to a post), and then purge with CO2.

EDIT: I overfilled a keg last month and ended up with beer in the gas line. Not fun. Won't be doing that again.

[Matt in Birdham]

"Stick a small block of wood under the beer-in side and then put a gas disconnect on the gas-in side with a piece of tubing going into a glass/bottle/bucket. Keep the pressure relief valve closed. When the beer reaches the gas dip tube, beer will come out (duh! ). Stop the beer flow and switch to the second keg.

The reason for the small block of wood is so the beer level isn't above the gas dip tube -- if it is (ie, the keg is overfilled), you can sometimes/often get beer flowing back into the gas line when you hook it up.

Advantages of this way are you get a sample of beer to test and drink and your system truly is closed -- you don't have to open the lid to see where the level is."

.....genius!

Amazing