Beer stone remover

[MashBag]

Guy. That is brilliant.

I did like the hanna tester. I have other hanna kit and appreciate the quality. Instructions are great.

I have unravelled why I think this is happening, and it is starting to line up.

Cheers

[Eric]

Hardness as CaCO3 is not the same as alkalinity as CaCO3, only the units of measure are the same.

pH of water for brewing is of no relevance, pH during the process is what is important and that is determined by the grains and the minerals in the liquor used.

There's lots to read, but not all material is essential to the brewer, but dealing with alkalinity is the first step.

[guypettigrew]

Hardness as CaCO3 is not the same as alkalinity as CaCO3, only the units of measure are the same.

pH of water for brewing is of no relevance, pH during the process is what is important and that is determined by the grains and the minerals in the liquor used.

There's lots to read, but not all material is essential to the brewer, but dealing with alkalinity is the first step.

Point well made, Eric. Hardness and alkalinity are not the same. Hardness includes lots of other stuff, just expressed as Calcium Carbonate, can't remember why it's done that way! I saw MB's 352ppm CaCo3 and thought no further!

Mashbag; Treat yourself to a Hanna alkalinity checker. You won't regret it!

Guy

[MashBag]

I am leaning toward the hanna.

I was shocked by 352ppm when it used to be a mere 270pp. Also some of the temporary hardness I managed to remove, by using a hot fill (from the domestic hot tank). I think those factors probably kept hardness in limits.

My thinking is: cold fill and the rise to 352 explain why this has started happening.

[MashBag]

Hardness as CaCO3 is not the same as alkalinity as CaCO3, only the units of measure are the same.

pH of water for brewing is of no relevance, pH during the process is what is important and that is determined by the grains and the minerals in the liquor used.

There's lots to read, but not all material is essential to the brewer, but dealing with alkalinity is the first step.

Very timely Eric, I was just trying to get my head round that one. Thank you.

So is it a true statement to say I am reducing hardness to effect a lowering of alkalinity?

[guypettigrew]

Sort of, let's just say lowering the alkalinity will reduce the hardness!

Good to know you're leaning towards the Hanna. Superb piece of kit.

Guy

[MashBag]

My only concern with the hanna here is that I will only use it once or twice, after 1 know the "add n" you just weigh it in like any other ingredient.

[MashBag]

Eric gave me the information needed for calculating how much AMS to add. AMS is a reliable mix of acids to a known concentration. 1ml of AMS in 1L water will reduce the alkalinity by 183 ppm. So, for example, if you had 50L water in your HLT at 352 ppm Calcium Carbonate, and wanted to reduce it to 20 ppm, a reduction of 332 ppm, you would need to add 332/183 ml AMS for every litre of water. This is 1.814ml/L or, for 50 litres, 50 x 1.184, which is 59.2ml.

If you choose to use separate acids you'll need to seek specialist advice from Eric or others on here!

Whichever method you choose will increase the Sulphate and/or Chloride concentration in the raw water in your HLT. Graham's 'water treatment calculator' on here will show you what the change is.

Hope this makes some sense.

Guy

I will get some AMS. I can easily use your math above to reduce to 20 ppm.

But will this be the only water treatment. Or does this lead to more. (or put another way... FFS grahems calc looks complicated)

[Eric]

So is it a true statement to say I am reducing hardness to effect a lowering of alkalinity?

No, not necessarily. Hardness is a measure of calcium and magnesium present in your water. measured in terms of calcium carbonate, that is the quantity of calcium carbonate that would provide the same amount of hardness.
Alkalinity is that part that resists acidity and when measured in terms of CaCO3, that s the quantity of calcium carbonate that would replace all the hardness regardless of its form.

If you boil your water and decant some off the deposit, then the hardness will be reduced as some of the calcium will have been lost. If you use acid, the alkalinity will be converted to salts. Those salts that are soluble will remain in solution and the hardness is unchanged.

Don't assume you water will never change.

[guypettigrew]

My only concern with the hanna here is that I will only use it once or twice, after 1 know the "add n" you just weigh it in like any other ingredient.

No you won't!! You'll use it every brew, 'coz your water will change, as Eric's said, above.

Guy

[MashBag]

If you boil your water and decant some off the deposit, then the hardness will be reduced as some of the calcium will have been lost. If you use acid, the alkalinity will be converted to salts. Those salts that are soluble will remain in solution and the hardness is unchanged.

Don't assume you water will never change.

Does it not gasify and leave as co2

[Eric]

No.

[MashBag]

OK

Thank you both for your help with this. I fear it may not necessarily be the end of the conversation though

[Eric]

Some revision of elementary chemistry would help, acids, bases and salts for a start.

[MashBag]

Does it not gasify and leave as co2

No.

I am struggling with this point.
There appears to be a difference of opinion or I am missing something.

Several suppliers state....

" Application
AMS can be added to either the cold or hot liquor tank and should be thoroughly mixed.
Time should be allowed to release the carbon dioxide produced by the neutralisation of
excess carbonate."

This is from the tech sheet produced by Murphy & Son's.