Large fermenter Problem

[RabMaxwell]

Hello all i have put my newish fermenter with new temperature controller into action but noticed a little problem.I fitted a light bulb in the fermenter chamber but there is only room for it near the top.When the fermentation was nearing the end the controller turned the light bulb on for heating and heat up to the programmed temperature.But the problem is i noticed when i pulled the probe up nearer the top of the fermenter .That near the top it was much hotter 25oc.The temperature isn't evening out properly throughout the fermenter.Possible fix could be.
1 move probe nearer the top of fermenter.
2 Do away with the light bulb & use an immersion fish tank heater instead.
3 If using immersion heater would i put the heater at the bottom & the temperature probe at the top
4 circulate beer to even temperature throughout fermenter
5 Suggestions welcome.

I think i will fill the fermenter with water and do a little temperature control trial before i brew with it again
I don't get this problem with my other fermenter as the light bulb is near the bottom of the fermenter.
The troubled fermenter.

(Click to Enlarge)
New temperature Controllers are very good.

What would be a good course of action.Cheers

[steve_flack]

I think if you're directly heating the liquid you're always going to have this problem unless you move the liquid around - either through a pump or by mechanical stirring. Even if you heat from the bottom, heat rises and you'll get hotter at the top.

BTW, how are you cooling? Glycol or with a fridge?

BTW2, so those controllers are good are they? Interesting

[Andy]

What is the actual fermentation vessel made of Rab ? Could you not use a heating belt wrapped around the outside of the vessel to supply the heating ?

[steve_flack]

Could something like this be the basis of a solution?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... &rd=1&rd=1

[Vossy1]

Why not wire a computer fan into the system so when the bulb comes on the air gets recirculated.

They're dirt cheap from maplins

This is how I move cool/hot air around my fv cupboard

If you use a fish tank heater you'll still end up with a hot spot at the top of the fv, unless you stir it with something like in SF's link

A fan is the easiest, cheapest option

[Mr blue]

Why not wire a computer fan into the system so when the bulb comes on the air gets recirculated.

They're dirt cheap from maplins

Was in pc world today and they had pc fans for £3.99.

[RabMaxwell]

The wooden bottom part is insulated with styrofoam there is no where to fit a light bulb. The top part is an old freezer that was knackerd that i cut up and i lift and place on top .It does as an insulated lid.I used to use it for secondary and settling that only ever needed cooling.I may just have to try a few different approaches and monitor the temperature at different places.



This one is ok there is more space inside for the heat to circulate.
I might even be ok if i move the probe nearer the top if the beer half way up till the top is controlled at the proper temperature.And the bottom is a few degrees cooler it might be a good thing as it will keep slurry lying at the bottom cooler.I don't think i will be testing again for a little while as that's 220 litres waiting for my 10 large cornies and 2 small ones.I would advise you to snap the controllers up a bargain at £29 & only got charged postage for 1 as i bought 2. Cheers

[RabMaxwell]

Might try the fan also but not sure if it would work as the hot air would still not get to the bottom as it is totally insulated untill half way up.Cheers

[RabMaxwell]

Hello steve i use an under bar beer cooler .I stripped the stainless coil from inside the tank and fitted a cheap immersion pump from E-Bay in the tank.The Python supplies on fermenter & submersible pump supplies the other.both have heat exchangers fitted.

Cheers

[RabMaxwell]

Hello all been thinking about my fermenting temperature problem. What about sterilising a small submersible pump.Pop it in near the top with a tube going near the bottom to circulate and even out the temperature.Not sure if sterilising solutions would knacker it or if yeast would clog it up and prevent it from working.I know i have 2 of them kicking about somewhere so wouldn't need to buy any. What's the consensus would this work? Cheers again

[SteveD]

Do you want to come and build a brewery and bar for me?? Hats off, what a setup!.

I saw somewhere where a brewer had a small external motor which drove a 'propeller' for the want of a better word which he used to equalise the temperature in his HLT when he was using it as part of a HERMS set up with the wort coil running through his HLT. Maybe a low speed version of that might agaitate the wort just enough withour aerating it? Have the motor outside with a longish shaft going through the lid and into the FV.

Or an attemperator? a copper cooling/heating coil that sits in the FV. For heating it could pass through a gently warm heat exchanger. No scorching.

However, I think that if you just manage to get the heat in at the bottom somehow, it will be ok. This is because heat rises, sure, but what happens when it gets to the top? It cools, and sinks, to be replaced by warmer rising wort, so I think you'll get a circulation. Yes, it will be warmer at the top, but it's not the same bit of warm beer just sitting there, because of that. Just my gut feeling.

Applying the heat at the top, then you got a warm layer, but with little or no circulation, I suspect.

[SteveD]

Hello all been thinking about my fermenting temperature problem. What about sterilising a small submersible pump.What's the consensus would this work? Cheers again

It might work. You could put a piece of white plastic scourer pad over the inlet to prevent lumps getting in, or a bit of S/S mesh. You can get magnetically coupled immersible fishtank pumps that would do the job...they're obviously safe from a health viewpoint, if fish survive, but I would wonder about taints. Are fishtank pumps food grade? Are the materials resistant to beer wort, which is of different composition to fishtank water? Well, apart from Budweiser, Fosters, John Smiths, etc

If you're determined to pump, why not use a totton pump mouted externally to draw off and return the beer. If I'm right in thinking they are magnetically coupled as well, so you can restrict the flow at the outlet to get the flow rate you want. Hey...taking it further you could pass the beer through a temperature controlled heat exchanger... coil in water, etc, which would take care of the heating/cooling for you as well! A sort of HERFS

....hmm how to deal with CO2 in the fermenting beer bubbling out and messing up the flow, un-priming the pump. Errrrrrr.......perhaps not then.

[RabMaxwell]

Hello Daab i was figuring on a soak with the pump turned on in a week bleach & water solution and a good rinse.Then soaked in iodophor solution to make sure or use one of my Totten pumps pump from bottom tap & return to the top. I am trying to use eqipment i already have and try not to get over complicated.I already have wiring that looks like spaghetti juntion with controllers and plugs going all roads.I have started labeling them now so i know what's what.I work in the catering industry offshore and have noticed there is a little peristatic pump that administers rinse aid to the dish washer.I think it's about time they were changed and i could get the old ones. Not sure if they would pump quick enough though as they have quite a low flow rate. The search goes on but we always get there in the end. Cheers

[tubby_shaw]

This type of pump is available http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/LOW-POWER-MULTI-F ... dZViewItem
It is suitable for marine water use so will not corrode its easily cleanable portable and cheap

[RabMaxwell]

Hello all the ideas are flowing today. I have a camper van with a little stainless sink it has a little submersible pump. I looked at them on the net and they are cheap to buy. They are for drinking water surely these will be food and drink safe