Pub casks at home: my thoughts so far

[floydmeddler]

Brilliant read MP. Cheers!

[mentaldental]

I pretty much agree with everything Rob says about using casks. The beer ends up different compared to using pressure barrels or Cornie Kegs. I think it is better, more like a proper pub pint.

I have used cask breathers with mine and they certainly extend the shelf life once the cask is broached, probably doubling it but you still loose condition. My next experiment is to rig up a combined cask breather/blanket CO2 arrangement to see if I can retain more condition.

You can buy the casks direct from Cypherco and they will laser your details on them FOC. http://www.cypherco.com

[Blackjack]

All excellent info, like several of the posts I had been puzzling about how to extend beer life in a cask with a blanket of CO2 once any secondary pressure was failing to push it out of a cask tap. On a plastic barrel I just use a quick blast on the S30 in the usual way to blanket and stop it glugging back through the tap.

I decided it was too dodgy to use an S30 fitting on the shive because of the risk of blowing the keystone out, but people have mentioned low pressure blanketing systems.

Can someone with direct knowledge post up a simple "how to" please with part numbers and sources of pressure reducers and relief valves etc. and the layout. It would be extremely helpful and make the difference between sticking with 5 gal brews once every 10 days and moving up to 9 gals every 2 or 3 weeks.

Thanks in advance

[Jolum]

Nice write up Rob. Very informative. I like the idea of having a larger holding tank for the finished beer (my only real gripe about cornies is that they're just too damn small). Unfortunately, I couldn't see me drinking 9 gallons in the space of time required before the beer goes off. So more cornies for me then

[yashicamat]

Nice write up Rob. Very informative. I like the idea of having a larger holding tank for the finished beer (my only real gripe about cornies is that they're just too damn small). Unfortunately, I couldn't see me drinking 9 gallons in the space of time required before the beer goes off. So more cornies for me then

I use 4.5gallon casks. They're pretty quick to prepare for the beer compared with cornies, there's only three parts to them (the cask, the shive and the keystone) so it isn't impractical to sanitise a couple and split a 9 gallon brew between two casks. Then you can leave one to continue to age while you tap the other.

[Jolum]

I use 4.5gallon casks. They're pretty quick to prepare for the beer compared with cornies, there's only three parts to them (the cask, the shive and the keystone) so it isn't impractical to sanitise a couple and split a 9 gallon brew between two casks. Then you can leave one to continue to age while you tap the other.

So if I go with the 4.5Gallon cask, I have to drink the 36pints in about 10 days or so? Also I can't easily add gas to prolong the beers life?

I'm still confused by the benefits of this system over a simple KK with a S30 gas cannister. Now if you tell me that the beer tastes better then that changes everything - I didn't get into AG brewing to save money or effort or for the kudos or any bollox like that. The two main reasons I entered the fray was to be able to drink beers that I can't get locally (I've never seen an APA or RIS on tap) and equally to brew higher quality beers (taste-wise) than most of the piss you get served in some pubs.

Hmm, if it improves the flavour of my beers, especially my hoppy brews, for £50 I may just give the 4.5 Gallon cask a go.

I think I need to get more info regarding the actual process of keeping the beer on a day to day basis, what to do with the spile when pulling a pint etc. Had a look at this site but still didn't answer all my questions.

BTW, you mentioned a steam lance for cleaning, have you considered a high pressure jet? I have a cheap one like this that works very well for all sorts of cleaning and you can connect it up to hot water, cleaning fluids etc

[danbrew]

I think the pressure washer would help get the crap out but steam would double as a sterilizer/ sanitizer. I was thinking of try to figure a lance attachment to a wallpaper steamer I have but don't need anymore. It kicks out loads of steam and it can't be that difficult to figure some form of lance made from 15mm copper pipe...

[Jolum]

I think the pressure washer would help get the crap out but steam would double as a sterilizer/ sanitizer. I was thinking of try to figure a lance attachment to a wallpaper steamer I have but don't need anymore. It kicks out loads of steam and it can't be that difficult to figure some form of lance made from 15mm copper pipe...

Good idea, I've got one of those lying around somewhere. Cheers.

[haz66]

You can buy the casks direct from Cypherco and they will laser your details on them FOC. http://www.cypherco.com

Thats not quite true its £1 extra per keg plus a one off £60 set up charge so not worth it for one keg.

[pantsmachine]

Good thread and lots of info within. These 4.5G's could be used to age beer in then with no risk of oxidisation unless the cask is tapped? That sounds right up my street!

[mentaldental]

Following up from my earlier post I now use a cask breather on my casks with a JG pushfit stop valve between the spile and the cask breather. When I am dispensing beer I turn the valve on to allow the CB to do it's stuff. When I am not serving beer I close the valve which seals the spile and stops condition being lost. Normally on opening the valve to serve some beer you can hear CO2 being bleed off throgh the CB as the pressure in the cask is released. In fact you must do this before opening the beer tap (if you are using a beer engine) to stop the beer flowing under it's own voliton.

I have found that beer will keep perfectly well like this for two months provided you remember to close the valve when not serving beer (and the dispense tap too!).

I have rigged up a bypass so that I can apply a CO2 blanket (at about 3psi) if needed. I have found that this is only necessary when I forget to close the splie valve.

[leedsbrew]

Following up from my earlier post I now use a cask breather on my casks with a JG pushfit stop valve between the spile and the cask breather. When I am dispensing beer I turn the valve on to allow the CB to do it's stuff. When I am not serving beer I close the valve which seals the spile and stops condition being lost. Normally on opening the valve to serve some beer you can hear CO2 being bleed off throgh the CB as the pressure in the cask is released. In fact you must do this before opening the beer tap (if you are using a beer engine) to stop the beer flowing under it's own voliton.

I have found that beer will keep perfectly well like this for two months provided you remember to close the valve when not serving beer (and the dispense tap too!).

I have rigged up a bypass so that I can apply a CO2 blanket (at about 3psi) if needed. I have found that this is only necessary when I forget to close the splie valve.

That sounds like a very good set up! Is there any chance you could provide photos/part numbers MD?

[mentaldental]

That sounds like a very good set up! Is there any chance you could provide photos/part numbers MD?

I will see what I can do, my set up is a bit hidden away. If I can't get a photo I will try and assemble outside one this weekend and take a pic of that.

[mentaldental]

Here you go as requested. I hope you can see what is going on:



Let's ignore the fact that I have two cask breathers.
You can just make out the edge of the beer engine in the top left corner of the photo.
At the back you can see a CO2 cylinder and regulator. As you can see the reg is set low about 2-3psi.
The gas is taken out of the cylinder and the line split into two using a JG "Y" fitting.
From one side of the "Y" a line is taken to the "in" port of the cask breather.
The "out" side of the cask breather is connected to the grey JG tap.
The other side of the "Y" fitting has a line run to the red tap.
The outlet of both the red and the grey tap are connected together using another "Y" fitting.
This line is connected onto the inlet of the plastic spile. I don't use the other port on the spile which I think is intended to be used to vent the cask.

With me so far?

In the past I used 3/8" beer line to make the connections but this caused some problems. As you can see the space is a bit tight and the infexible nature of the beer line caused it to distort the sealing O-rings in the JG fitting and on two occasions I lost all the CO2 from the cylinder. I now use vinyl tubing and JG hose to tube connectors. If you have a bit more space I think beer line would be OK but for me the vinyl has been brilliant.

OK, how do you use it?
1. Set the regulator to a low pressure, a few psi. Leave the gas off for now.
2. Make sure that the beer tap is closed on your cask (if using a beer engine--if you don't any pressure will cause the beer to flow out of the beer engine in an uncontrolled manner. You can get valves to stop this happening but I don't use one.
3. Make sure both the red and grey tap are closed and then turn the gas on.
4. No leaks? Good.
5. Open the grey tap (the cask breather one). Nothing should happen.
6. Open the beer tap. If you are using gravity dispense beer should flow and after a second or two you will hear gas flowing as the cask breather does its thing. If using a beer engine, pull a pint. Again you should hear gas flow.
7. As soon as the beer has stopped flowing the gas should also stop.
8. If you are having a session leave things as they are.
9. When you have finished serving beer close the beer tap (important) and the grey tap (also important). If you want to be sure, are a bit anal, and can be arsed switch off the regulator and/or the cylinder (I don't bother now that I have sorted out my leakage problem).

OK, that wasn't too bad was it?

Next time you use the system when you open the grey tap you will hear gas escape through the cask breather. This is the pressure that has built up in the cask being vented. The cask breather vents all pressure so that the head space in the cask is at atmospheric pressure. For this reason you must close the grey tap AFTER EVERY SESSION. If you don't you will lose all condition in the beer.

What of the red tap you ask? Well honestly, I am thinking of removing it. Now that I remember to close the grey tap I find I don't need to use it. However, if you lose condition in the beer it is possible to restore it using a little bit of top pressure like so:

1. Close the grey tap.
2. Close the beer tap.
3. Set the reg to about 5psi. You can use 5psi to feed the cask breather so it may already be set to this.
4. Open the red tap. Gas should flow for a few or several seconds, depending on how much head space needs to be pressurised, and then stop.
5. Leave this gentle top pressure on the beer overnight.


Before serving again
1. Close the red tap.
2. Open the grey tap. The pressure will vent through the cask breather.
3. You are good to go.

Hope this helps. Any question? Post a reply or PM me.

Y fitting
Hose to tube connectors. Buy to suit your vinyl
Stop valves
Cask breather
Spile

You will need a few other fitting but this gives you some idea.

Oh yes, this is how I wash my casks. OK it may be a little over the top but it works well and I have adapted it to clean my fermenters too (oh, and bottles as well).

[Andy]

I don't think I could finish a keg like that off in the time it takes before the beer loses condition, but for parties and stuff it would be perfect.

He did mention that the beer keeps for a couple of months when stored like that.