Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

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adm

Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:45 pm

Well, I'm bored at home today, so I thought I'd start a post documenting my attempt at a RIMS system using a Willis Immersion heater.

First of all though, I'm not really sure whether this will be RIMS or HERMS until I get all the bits and pieces and can work it out. My confusion is down to the main piece of the the system which will be a Willis Immersion Heater. This is a type of external immersion heater in a small cylinder that is fairly common in Northern Ireland, but more or less unheard of in the UK. They look like this:

Image

The spec on the unit is:
Shell height 300mm
Shell diameter 75mm
Water content 0.96 litre
Water connections 2x15mm compression
Tested 10 BAR
Elements Copper Clad – Rod Type
Loading 3kw at 240v
Voltage range 230/250v 1 phase
Weight 1.5kg empty
Weight 2.5kg including water

The reason I am confused is that the spec says: "Outer shell and internal heat exchanger constructed from solid drawn copper". Now I had thought that the thing was just an immersion element bunged into a copper cylinder that would directly heat the water/wort passing through, but the reference to an "internal heat exchanger" has me thrown, and until the bugger arrives I won't know for sure. So I presume that if it is a direct heat job, it will be RIMS, but if there is an internal heat exchanger then it will be HERMS ???

I'm going to use this with the Willis vertical with cooler wort going in the bottom, while heated wort comes out the top. I'll see if it works without a pump first, just using the pricipal that hot fluids rise and cold ones will come in underneath, however if that doesn't work, I'll just use my existing March May pump and stick a ballvalve on the output to control the flow. I'll use push fit silicone tubing to connect all the bits so it's dead easy to strip down and clean everything.

Anyway....not much to see yet, but some of the control parts arrived today from Auber Instruments, so I thought I'd bore everyone with some pics and some drivel about my plans....

First of all, I'm going to put the control circuitry into an instrument case something like this one from Farnell:

Image

This will hold the PID, SSR and input and output power connectors and a connector on the front panel for the temperature probe. I want it all to be in a nice little portable case so I can use the basic control unit for other applications too - sous vide cooking and cheesemaking. For the power connections, I think i'll just use panel mount IEC 14/15 inlets and outlets (kettle lead sockets), although they only seem to be rated at 10A and I will need 13A....I'll keep looking for a solution for this....

Here's the connector I'm going to use for the temperature probe:
Image
Nice little panel mount connectors for about $3 each from Auber, complete with a positive locking mechanism. Sweet

Here's the temperature probe itself - PT100 type, 2" probe with a 1/4" NPT thread and the same type of connector already fitted.
Image

Here's how I intend to mount the probe into the flow. The brass "T" piece will be fitted to the output of the Willis Immersion by a short stub of 15mm copper, so this will directly measure the output temperature of the heater. I know this won't be the same as the grain bed temperature, but I'll use trial and error to calibrate the difference between the temperature here, and what it relates to by the time it's in the middle of the grain and then adjust the offset accordingly.
Image
The piece in the middle is to adapt the 1/4" NPT thread on the probe to the 1/2" BSP thread in the T piece. The probe doesn't screw all the way into the adaptor as it has a 1/4" BSP thread - but it goes plenty far enough to seal well with a bit of PTFE tape.

Finally for today, here's the PID and SSR:
Image
You might notice I don't have a heatsink for the SSR - I forgot to order one. Doh! But anyway, I think that as I plan on using a metal case for the controls, if I screw the SSR directly to it and use some thermal grease it should be fine in using the case as a heatsink.

That's all for now folks, try and contain your hysteria until the next instalment.....

leedsbrew

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by leedsbrew » Thu Jan 21, 2010 7:55 pm

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>

haz66

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by haz66 » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:12 pm

Excellent as i`m also thinking of building my herms unit from the Willis Immersion heater, so i`m gonna follow your lead :D

Scooby

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by Scooby » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:25 pm

When I'm bored at home I go for a walk with the dog :lol:

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 9:26 pm

Scooby wrote:When I'm bored at home I go for a walk with the dog :lol:
:D I already did that. And cooked dinner, did some work and had a mole cut out of my head earlier this morning.

I get bored easily!

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Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by WishboneBrewery » Thu Jan 21, 2010 10:02 pm

adm wrote:I get bored easily!
Me too..
I think thats why I seem to like being busy when working, nothing worse than being at work with time to kill (wherever you work).

brewzone

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by brewzone » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:42 pm

I'm eager to hear how the willis is configured inside!

Looking good so far!

BZ

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Thu Jan 21, 2010 11:57 pm

brewzone wrote:I'm eager to hear how the willis is configured inside!
You and me both BZ. I find it hard to believe it will be a "heat exchanger" mechanism rather than just a 3Kw immersion element stuck inside a cylinder - but it would be great if it was. It would certainly make the issues of wort scorching and cleaning easier. I will live in hope but prepare for disappointment. Actually, not really disappointment as that's how I'd always thought it would work anyway

You know what though? Delboy or someone in his family probably has one of these in their airing cupboard already. We could just ask them to go and take their plumbing apart and just end the uncertainty now!
brewzone wrote: Looking good so far!

BZ
Yeah......just wait until I get to the tricky bits. It'll be far worse then.....

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 12:09 am

Here's a question.....

I'm currently a batch sparge type of guy - but as I move to RIMS it will make sense to move to fly sparging.

However - if I have a recirculating mash going, when I'm done mashing and want to transfer the wort to the kettle how about if I just keep the recirc going, but introduce more hot water into the bottom of the heat exchanger from the HLT via a ball valve, and at the same time use another ball valve to divert part of the flow of wort coming out of the the bottom of the mash tun directly into the kettle. In effect, a fly sparge, but without needing to mess around with anything or change any cofngurations - just add some additional hot water into the circuit and extract some wort out of it...???

Or is this just what you RIMS/HERMS folk do anyway?

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 2:04 pm

Not much to report on this today. I ordered the enclosure for the control circuitry from Farnell - same one as the pic above.

I also solved my power connectors dilemma. it seems that most of the IEC "Kettle" type plugs are rated at 10A only and I need 12.5A for the 3KW heater so i'd prefer to be safe than sorry! However, I have found a series of connectors that look ideal for the job:

Image

These are Neutrik "PowerCon" 20A AC connectors with positive locking. http://www.neutrik.com/fl/en/audio/210_ ... etail.aspx
They are also colour coded and mechanically different so they can't be plugged into the wrong socket. Ideal for the job. Ordered from AudioSpares on eBay....

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Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by dcq1974 » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:21 pm

Watching this thread with interest! :D :D
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Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by Andy » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:33 pm

It's just going to be an immersion element within that shown enclosure isn't it. If it were a non direct heat exchanger model then I'd expect more than two input/output ports, two for the inner shell surrounding the element and another two for the outer shell. As the spec only states two then it will be a single shell with immersion element contained within. If the element were surrounded by a shell with no input/output ports then it would have to contain a liquid otherwise the element would burn out. And if there's a liquid in there and it's a sealed inner unit then kaboom when it heats up :lol:

So you'll have a high power density RIMS IMO.
Dan!

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 3:39 pm

Andy wrote:It's just going to be an immersion element within that shown enclosure isn't it. If it were a non direct heat exchanger model then I'd expect more than two input/output ports, two for the inner shell surrounding the element and another two for the outer shell. As the spec only states two then it will be a single shell with immersion element contained within. If the element were surrounded by a shell with no input/output ports then it would have to contain a liquid otherwise the element would burn out. And if there's a liquid in there and it's a sealed inner unit then kaboom when it heats up :lol:

So you'll have a high power density RIMS IMO.
That's exactly what I think too, it's just that wording is confusing. As for the power density, I think 3KW will be too high - but I'll wait and see. It looks like a standard 2 1/4" immersion element fitting though, so if there's too much power there, I'll just pull it out and stick a lower power one in it's place....

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Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by stu-le-brew » Fri Jan 22, 2010 4:08 pm

attached picture of my temp controler, using a similar box but found a source for K type thermocouples connectors. I would advise having a heat sink on the SSR as my mark one got to hot and melted
Image
Last edited by stu-le-brew on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:44 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Stu-le-brew
All stainless system, thanks supplier on EBay France
100ltr Copper gas powered
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70ltr electric HLT with home made digital temp controller (with PID and SSR)
pumped sparge system and pumped stainless immersion chilling system for summer use (using a ice/water-bath)

adm

Re: Willis RIMS/HERMS? System Project

Post by adm » Fri Jan 22, 2010 5:23 pm

I'm still in two minds about adding a heatsink. The SSR in my HLT controller doesn't run very hot at all and is firing a 2.4KW element that's on most of the time

This one will fire a 3KW element, but as the vessel and amount of wort is small, it will probably only be on for short pulses, not constantly like the other one, so I'd expect it to run a lot cooler. However - maybe it's the switching that causes the heat? I don't think so, but I'm not sure....

But - I also want to order another probe from Auber, so I might as well add a heatsink to the order....

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