Gas rings

[PEACOCKSUIT]

I am thinking about getting together the kit for a GAS BIAB set up as I have a large brewery keg to convert to a boiler. I have had mixed success with my electric set-up.

I this gas burner suitable?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... _500wt_950

[GrowlingDogBeer]

I would want to know it's power output prior to purchase.

I am thinking of going for one of these as I am planning to move up to a 55 Litre stainless boiler as my 30 Litre plastic / electric one is not quite big enough for me.

They are also recommended by the Malt Miller so they should hopefully be OK.

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/L ... tml#aHA316

[boingy]

If it was a tenner I'd say take a chance and buy it. At £30 inc delivery it looks like a poor buy, especially as the condition is described as rusty and the seller is hiding behind a "only for spares" cop-out.

Mine also came from gas products and is this one:

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/L ... _Ring.html

It easily supports and boils a 65 litre, 50cm boiling pot.

TBH, I think any of those chunky boiling rings will do the job. Just be aware that they need to be used somewhere ventilated or outdoors. Don't be using them in your kitchen.

[NewPeculier]

Mine also came from gas products and is this one:

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/L ... _Ring.html

It easily supports and boils a 65 litre, 50cm boiling pot.

Boingy, I think that's the burner I'm going to buy but I don't know a lot about gas products (open fire or trangia for me when I go camping). What else do i need in terms or regulators, high/low pressure hose, clips, connectors, etc?

All help appreciated!

[beermonsta]

newpeculiar - I've owned two of the boiling rings for some time but only used them with the recommended 37mbar regulator.
I am awaiting delivery of a 50-150mbar adjustable regulator and a 0-2 bar adjustable regulator to experiment and see if I can boost the power beyond its normal rated capacity.
I know that other people have used both of these but never really reported how well they work and what's the overall best choice. Stay tuned and I'll update and make a post soon.
Other than the reg though you will need LPG hose (high pressure preferably), pipeclips to secure the hose to the barbs, an adaptor "nozzle" for the regulator if you choose either of the two I'm experimenting with (full details later), and thats it as the boiling ring usually has a valve with nozzle/barb on it.
You also need to make a choice of what size cylinder and style of outlet you are going to use.
I would recommend a bog basic 19kg tank as at this size you can (just about) lift and move it around, normally not need to pay a deposit because of it's size, not need to keep getting it swapped for 4-8 brews, and use a standard POL tank connector. But you can make a choice to use a 27mm clip on regulator (I have one on a BP gaslite tank that I use on the mobile shed (caravan)

[boingy]

That ring is designed for a 37mBar reg. I know many use the variable 0.5 to 2 Bar ones but I opted for the fixed 50mBar one:

http://www.gasproducts.co.uk/acatalog/c ... ator_.html

It's plenty big enough for boiling 40 litres. With the ring turned up full the flames are already reaching the outer edge of the pot so and more pressure and the heat would just be wasted I think. If there had been a variable 50mBar to 500mBar I would have been tempted though.

In addition to the reg you need a length of hose, a couple of hose clips plus, of course, a calor gas cylinder. You have a choice of Propane or Butane and the reg is different for each. I suggest Propane.
If you are going to use it outdoors you will need to improvise some sort of wind shield.

[Aleman]

I use the 400mm Paella burner with a 50-150mbar Adjustable reg on my 150L pot . . .with a heat shroud around the pot . . .

I give you the new (to me) 150L Pico Copper, complete with 400mm (and 200mm) 11KW Gas Burner from Hamilton Gas Products



Well this is it in the dark with the shroud fitted and the burner doing it's stuff


And the good news is that at 37mBar . . . it took 40L of water from 25C to 78C in 25 minutes . . . which is pretty much better than the picocopper could manage (I have an email from Hamilton gas that says it will take hours to get a large volume of water to boiling) so I'm quite pleased . . .as it means that I will be saving gas.

[leedsbrew]

I have the same gas ring as Aleman! Great valua and service from HGP. I'll be getting my brew stand back from my brother's workshop next week (complete with shroud!)so will be testing it with my 113L copper

I use the 400mm Paella burner with a 50-150mbar Adjustable reg on my 150L pot . . .with a heat shroud around the pot . . ..

I notice you've upped the regulator A! can I ask as to the reasoning for this, as I have the 37mbar but haven't done any test boils yet! Wonder weather it's worth getting a bigger one straight off the bat?

[Aleman]

The burner is rated to 11KW at 50mBar . . .but the standard 50mBar reg will only supply 1Kg of gas per hour . . . Ideally in order to get 11KW you need up to 4Kg of gas per hour . . . which the 50-150mBar reg will supply. . . IIRC the 37mBar regs are also only rated to provide 1Kg per hour which from memory is 'good enough' for a max of about 9KW. . . . I'd do a test boil and see what sort of heating rate you are getting before changing anything . . . Having a shroud makes a massive difference

[beermonsta]

ok, as promised here is a quick vid I made tonight (doing a Black sheep - Riggwelter, mash overnight, boil in the morning)
The 50-150mbar regulator is initially set to the lowest setting number 1 (50mbar) and is immediately noticabily kicking out more power than the usual 37mbar fixed regulator. turning up up the reg to number 2 (approx 60mbar) caused the flames in places to jump up away from the holes on the boiling ring as you can see in the video (i.e a bit too much output already!) then up to 3 followed by 4. At this point most of the flames are leaping away from the holes and the gas is even starting to burn underneath the ring .
(yes we did try 10 for a brief second, but decided that I didn't want to burn my eyebrows off)
I don't really think that there is any need to try the 0-2bar high pressure regulator (not that that will stop me ).
So in conclusion, 50mbar is plenty enough so I concur with boingy that a fixed 50mbar regulator using these boing rings is ideal.
This can be fine tuned by using the brass valve on the burner itself. In fact at 10 (150mbar) with the brass boiling valve turned right down there was no issues, but no need in reality to do this.
Hope this helps with people making a decision as I struggled to find enough information to give me this information before I experimented tonight

[Shippo]

Could one (or more) of you chaps using the paella burners answer this for me - when going at full tilt what is the diameter of the flame, compared to the burner itself (I assume the flames flare out from the burner, rather than going straight up)? Reason I ask is that my pot will be resting on a metal frame, once I get my act together and build it, and while I'd like to have the extra 2kWh of the 400mm burner as opposed to the 350mm, I'm not sure I wouldn't just be heating the frame rather than the pot... so what is the internal dimension I need my frame to have for the 400mm to work?

Thanks in advance!

[steve71ni]

I also just bought the large square boiling ring from Hamiltons. I wasn't sure of the options and went for the standard click on reg for propane 'patio gas' cylinders which delivers 37mbar. I tried boiling 30L of water from around 16C. It took around 55mins. The burner is rated to output 8.8kw, so in theory if i was getting full output it should be quite a bit shorter boil time. It would be worth investigating the gas cylinder/reg options to get the best output and then let me know
regards,
steve.

[paulski]

can you use 2 gas burners from 1 reg and still keep pressure? does any one do this

[boingy]

I also just bought the large square boiling ring from Hamiltons. I wasn't sure of the options and went for the standard click on reg for propane 'patio gas' cylinders which delivers 37mbar. I tried boiling 30L of water from around 16C. It took around 55mins. The burner is rated to output 8.8kw, so in theory if i was getting full output it should be quite a bit shorter boil time. It would be worth investigating the gas cylinder/reg options to get the best output and then let me know
regards,
steve.

Remember that although the theoretical output of the burner is 8.8kW, substantially less than that will reach your wort. Some of the heat goes up the side of the pan, some is whisked away by breezes etc. Also remember that usually you will be boiling immediately after a sparge so the starting temperature is typically somewhere in the 60's.

can you use 2 gas burners from 1 reg and still keep pressure? does any one do this

That's a good question and not one I have seen before. Most boilers lend themselves to a single large burner but my gas BBQ has 3 independent burners off one reg so I can't see a problem.

[Aleman]

can you use 2 gas burners from 1 reg and still keep pressure? does any one do this

It does depend on the burners and the Reg TBH. These 8.8KW burners draw up to 1Kg of gas per hour . . . if your reg is only capable of supplying 1Kg/hour then having 2 burners will reduce your heat output . . . I use the comap 50-150mBar reg and 11KW (400mm??) Paella burner on my 150L copper. The reason being that it can deliver 4Kg per hour which is 'required' once you get above 9KW.

This is my copper , the Paella burner fits outside the big 3" drain plug in the centre, and pretty much the outer ring lights up to the 50/52cm point when on full (at 50mBar). This obviously would loose too much heat up the sides (the pot having a 56cm diameter), so I had a heat shroud made to trap that 'waste' heat and act as an insulator



Well this is it in the dark with the shroud fitted and the burner doing it's stuff



And the good news is that at 50mBar . . . it took 40L or water from 25C to 78C in 25 minutes . . . which is pretty much better than the picocopper could manage (I have an email from Hamilton gas that says it will take hours to get a large volume of water to boiling) so I'm quite pleased . . . as it means that I will be saving gas. (The other burner was rated at 38KW at 2Bar . . . and really used a lot of gas . . . Lancs Steve may be using less now though as he has protected the burner and pots from draughts)

I won some big casters on ebay that screwed into the legs so that I can move it about., and even full of wort it's quite easy to move