TIG welder advice

[Kev888]

I'm looking to get a new welder; this time I'd like one with the ability to weld thin stainless sheet and pipes/nipples etc. - possibly aluminium too if it doesn't cost much more.

I could be wrong but I believe TIG may be the best choice for that, but I've never done it before and there seem to be a bewildering range of welders/inverters for it. Just looking around, some people seem to use glorified arc welding inverters with just a power control, whilst others use dedicated ones with all sorts of settings that I don't yet understand the implications of.. pulse control, high frequency, polarity reverse, AC/DC, scratch or non-scratch starting..

I probably can't justify an industrial one but after the crapness of my ex-cheapo stick welder I'd like something thats not unnecessarily difficult to use - I'm not exactly great at welding to begin with. Does anyone know what features are really worth having?

Thanks
Kev

[boingy]

I've looked into it and concluded that an easy to use and worthwhile TIG welder does not come cheap. I'm average with a stick, and fairly decent with a MIG but to get decent results with a TIG, especially on stainless or ali, requires lots of practice and lots of wastage! And you really won't like the cost of the gas. Just don't go buying a budget one. AC/DC and HF start are not optional.

I'm a tool addict but even I have not been able to justify a TIG....

[gnutz2]

Well a converted stick welder wont have hf (high frequency = non scratch start) so you need to touch the tip on the metal to start welding and they dont have a gas solenoid valve so you have to turn the gas on manually with the torch. Genrally a faf and best avoiding.

So, what you will need is a AC/DC ( aluminium=AC and SS=DC) tig with hf start and if possible pulse function, the pulse basically pulses the welding amps which makes it easier to weld thin materials but is not necessary, if youre a skillful welder you can manage without.

You could buy one of the many cheap chinese built tigs that are awash on ebay and start at about £300 but bear in mind it probably will break, it could last a year or five but it will break! I bought my chinese tig about 6 years ago and it broke twice in two years of owning it, fortunately i was able to fix it both times.

If i was to buy another tig i would get one from here http://www.r-techwelding.co.uk/welding_ ... Tig_Welder
I know someone with one and he does like it and i have one of their migs.

the 160 or 200 amp ac/dc welders look like good buys but it really boils down to if you need to do any aluminium welding, if not then get the 160 dc setup and save yourself 750 quid.

Also IMO a foot pedal is essential for alloy welding, i wouldnt be without mine, but not necessary for steel.

Heres an example of work my chinese one did





Cheer Baz









I

[boingy]

Baz talking about amps has reminded me.
I'm pretty sure you will already know this but only the smallest TIGs will run from a standard 13A socket. Another thing to consider.

Get yourself over to the forums and guides here:

www.mig-welding.co.uk

They were invaluable when I was choosing my stuff. The chap called "weldequip" runs the weldequip online shop so you get decent but slightly biassed advice from him!

[Kev888]

Thanks very much chaps - thats incredibly useful to know. Things are beginning to make some sense now.

Baz, if I can even come vaguely close to your standards I'll be amazed - I'd be happy to get half way there! Thanks also for clarifying things.

Boingy, thanks for the info and the link; that looks ideal for me. Yes, things are starting to get more expensive the more I find out, and I'd not even considered how expensive the gas would be yet - and then theres all the stuff like pickling paste to think about.. I'm sure I could sort a 16A feed but its all adding to the complication and making it harder to justify.

Hmm, I think aluminium is out then. 'Possibly' stainless TIG is still in - the amount of time and money I've spent on stainless fittings instead of welding something makes the extra cost seem not completely unrealistic. But it is getting worryingly pricey; I'll have a read of that DIY guide, work out some costs and see what I think. Possibly I could look again at stainless MIG welding - if I develop my skill a bit more to let me do thinner sheet.

Cheers
Kev

[gnutz2]

Cant believe theres a half empty box of carlsberg to the right of the turbo in the first pic

It was a long time ago

[barney]

Hello Kev,

How is your gas welding?

I reckon you need be competent at gas welding to consider tig, a lot of the torch and filler rod angles are transferable from one process to the other even though you need to move a good bit faster.

Mig welding is canned kits, you get something usable
Stick welding is extract brewing, not that much different.
Tig welding is like all grain, a heck of lot more to learn but the results are more professional.

BTW it is possible to stick weld Stainless and Aluminium, sometimes you don't need it to look pretty just stick, Mig welding stainless also gives adequate results. Don't get it in your head you have to tig weld stainless- you don't.

[froggi]

Kev
If you can gas weld using oxy-actylene kit you can, with a couple of easily learned skills, TIG weld.... Process, skill-wise is almost the same.
As posted earlier, the cheap Far Eastern imports are not the same quality as the stuff you get here even if it is made in the same place (which a lot of it is!!!) .... essentially you gets what you pay for with this sort of kit.....

[Kev888]

Thanks chaps! I've not done any gas welding for a long time and not much then, but IIRC I didn't find it too tricky - kind of more like brazing in some ways, which I've done a lot more of, and certainly a more calm and controlled experience than my stick welder ever was. Do you need a particularly small torch or anything for stainless? Just that I seem to remember the flame heating things up quite a bit.

I've been perusing the various forums and it does indeed seem that I could mig weld some stuff, but opinion appears to be that for thinner sheets (for instance, stock pots maybe 0.6mm thick) you have to be quite skilled not to blow holes. Does that sound right?

Cheers
kev

EDIT: just been looking at local prices for argon - £108 for a 9L 135bar refill!!! I'm assuming thats going to expand to 135x9=1215L, and looking at the welding forum something like 7Lpm seems a typical flow rate so 'presumably' thats a bit under 3hrs of welding - I could probably use half the bottle just practicing...

[gnutz2]

Yes, gas will be your biggest consumable cost, its a very expensive form of welding unfortunately.

[Kev888]

Yes, its begining to make me wince a bit... I'm looking again at mig and even gas welding at the mo, as that may be more sensible for my humble needs if I can do say 0.5mm stainless sheet somehow..

Boingy, just wanted to say thanks again for the link to the mig-welding site; its proving invaluable. It also makes me feel a bit more optimistic about my chances of developing the necessary skill - looking at the comments for the type of welder I have it says:

The technology is now the reserve of DIY stores selling welders to people who don't know any better. They are the least usable of any type of arc welder. To a great extent these are a waste of money. They are the most difficult to use of any arc welder, so most DIY buyers will decide they don't like the process and give up.

So maybe I'm not just entirely rubbish. It certainly confirms that whatever I get next it should at least be half decent!

Cheers
Kev

[gnutz2]

Unfortunately you cant weld stainless with gas (oxy/acetylene), it just makes a big mess.

Mig would be a good option.

[boingy]

My first attempts with the cheap stick welder were comedy. Occasionally I'd end up with something that looked passable then I'd chip off the carbon and just see a progression of random splats. At least it is cheap to practice with! The MIG is much, much easier. Passable welds from day one with that, even using the fluxed "no gas" wire. The other thing that improved my welding was an auto-darkening helmet. It seemed a bit of a luxury at the time but at least it means that a weld starts in the right place now!

Hat's off to gnutz for those welds though. I can get welds like that on mild steel for about an inch or so but then I hesitate or wobble and lose it. And that's on the flat. I'd spend a lifetime trying to do that round a curve. My angle grinder sees a fair bit of post-welding action!

Have to say that welding thin metal is harder than thick, and welding stainless and ali are harder than mild steel. If you only plan to make a few welds it would be more economical and practical to pay a local welding shop to do it. I suspect you are the same as me and would much prefer to buy the kit, learn the skill and do it yourself but you risk punching holes in your precious brew pots.

[Kev888]

Excellent - thanks once again chaps! Between this advice and the mig-welding forum I'm more or less headed towards a mig welder now - mostly on economic grounds. From what I can determine if I get one that goes down nice and low on the amperage, material thicknesses of around 0.6mm may not be unreachable, especially if I can avoid straight butt joints.

Yep, you're right Boingy - I should just get my welding done, its the only sensible thing really. But sadly I'm not that sensible; I enjoy making stuff so its part of the fun and satisfaction for me - until it goes wrong anyway I'm also determined to learn how to weld in any case; I seriously doubt I'll get as good as Baz, but it can hardly be any worse than my stick welding experiences, and I've had enough of tip-toeing around welding stainless all these years. I like the decent mask idea too - with my current hand-held one I sometimes manage to run a bead 'next to' what I meant to join, let alone just start it in the wrong place..

Naturally, project No.1 will be about the most difficult i could find - I've decided to weld two french pots into a taller one - it'll just be for a grain basket though, so as long as the things physically hold together that will suffice. I still predict much swearing and 'making good'.. At least after the stick welder I'm pretty experienced at filling in blown-out holes

Cheers,
Kev

[gnutz2]

Good for you, being determined, you sound a bit like me, if someone says its difficult or cant be done i kind of go out of my way to proove to them and more so to proove to myself that i can do it.

I'll be out of pocket and wasted countless hours doing it but you cant beat that feeling of a job done good satisfaction.

And the same applies to brewing beer