Corny Keg and Cooler Setup - Pints of Foam!

[Jambo]

Evening all.

I think this is my first post here in spite of having been registered for five years!

Getting back into home brewing after several years working abroad and living out of a suitcase...! I have some corny kegs (19L I think), a good Norgen gas regulator, a Corny flash cooler and a proper pub beer tap. The whole time I have owned this, it has never poured properly - just pure foam! I'd love to get some advice from some more experienced folks on how I can make this setup reach its potential.

The pipe between the keg and the cooler is 'small' (maybe 3/16" ?) for a few feet and then goes through a John Guest adaptor to what I would call standard size beer tubing - 3/8" I think.

Do you think this change in diameter is the source of my woes? The larger tubing is transparent and I can see bubbles forming in it. I'm using about 15 psi at the moment, that should be sufficient right?

The gas pipe goes through the same reduction but I can't see this being of any consequence.

My plan is to buy John Guest fittings that go directly onto the Corny disconnects and probably a longer piece of tubing. I have found a few sources of the JG fittings, can anyone point me in the direction of some standard size beer tubing?

Thanks,

Jamie

[JammyBStard]

Yes, it will probably be the step-up in size causing your problems, the pressure on the beer will reduce when the pipe steps up causing CO2 to come out of suspension. If you can make the 3/8 section as short as possible things should improve.
The pressure should be set for the desired carbonation level in the keg. and for the temperature the keg is stored at: http://knoxhomebrewer.com/images/storie ... 0chart.pdf and then the serving pressure should be adjusted by cutting the beer line to the right length. usually you want 1 to 2 PSI at the tap.

So start by working out the desired carbonation level and the temperature of the Keg.


Correct me if I'm wrong people, I'm not sure how an in-line cooler might effect it!

[alexlark]

I just set up my first keg and gas system. The carbonation chart is what I followed. I aimed for about 2.50 volumes of CO2 as a starting point and this turned out fine for my liking.

From there you can work out the diameter and length of beer line to get 1 - 2 PSI at the tap. I used approx 5ft x 3/16, regulator set to 16 PSI and my pour is perfect

[Jambo]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've had a look at the carbonation chart and it makes sense however I can't find any formula for the pressure drop along the pipe in order to get the 1-2 psi at the tap. Could you point me in the right direction please?

The tube to the tap on the other side of the cooler goes back down to 3/16" at some stage... Trouble is the cooler is 3/8" internally so really I can only minimise the 3/8 run so much... Therefore I'm thinking having the whole setup (upsteam of the cooler at least) at 3/8 could be the way to go... Though the corny itself and the disconnects are small bore...

[Befuddler]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've had a look at the carbonation chart and it makes sense however I can't find any formula for the pressure drop along the pipe in order to get the 1-2 psi at the tap. Could you point me in the right direction please?

The tube to the tap on the other side of the cooler goes back down to 3/16" at some stage... Trouble is the cooler is 3/8" internally so really I can only minimise the 3/8 run so much... Therefore I'm thinking having the whole setup (upsteam of the cooler at least) at 3/8 could be the way to go... Though the corny itself and the disconnects are small bore...

You're best off using 3/8 from the corny into the chiller, then stepping down to 3/16 from the chiller to the tap. Working out the pressure drop accurately is hard, but I seem to recall you'll drop about 1psi per foot of 3/16 line (very roughly). The easiest way is to start off with a few meters of it and gradually chop it down until you get the flow right.

Alternatively, use 3/8 right through and use a lower serving pressure.

[alexlark]

These are the figures I went by for beer line resistance:

3/16 ID vinyl tubing = 3 psi/ft
1/4 ID vinyl tubing = 0.85 psi/ft
3/16 ID Polyethylene tubing = 2.2 psi/ft
1/4 ID Polyethylene tubing = 0.5 psi/ft
3/8 OD Stainless tubing = 0.2 psi/ft
5/16 OD Stainless tubing = 0.5 psi/ft
1/4 OD Stainless tubing = 2 psi/ft

As I wanted to keep my line short I went for the 3/16 ID as that offers the most resistance. I would imagine in a pub where they are likely to have longer lines it makes sense to go for a larger ID line.

[JammyBStard]

Thanks for the replies guys. I've had a look at the carbonation chart and it makes sense however I can't find any formula for the pressure drop along the pipe in order to get the 1-2 psi at the tap. Could you point me in the right direction please?

The tube to the tap on the other side of the cooler goes back down to 3/16" at some stage... Trouble is the cooler is 3/8" internally so really I can only minimise the 3/8 run so much... Therefore I'm thinking having the whole setup (upsteam of the cooler at least) at 3/8 could be the way to go... Though the corny itself and the disconnects are small bore...

You're best off using 3/8 from the corny into the chiller, then stepping down to 3/16 from the chiller to the tap. Working out the pressure drop accurately is hard, but I seem to recall you'll drop about 1psi per foot of 3/16 line (very roughly). The easiest way is to start off with a few meters of it and gradually chop it down until you get the flow right.

I'd agree this is definitely the best way to go.
I don't think Id want to go with a larger bore and drop the keg pressure. It would be ok short term but the carbonation level of the beer would eventually drop.

[Jambo]

Thanks all. I see Brew UK also sell the line in the Cornelius section. Transport is going to be the biggest cost so I'll just order a load of both sizes. Happy days.

[Fil]

i also us e a chiller and have a length of beerline and chiller between kegs and tap Yes there is a bit of pressure drop along the line and that will encourage co2 to escape from the beer , but with cira 2m of beerline ontop of the chiller coil length to my taps i get about 1/4-1/3 of the first pint of a session which is a bit lively due to the bubbles in the line after which the pour settles down.

+1 to the above recomendations for reducing the pressure gradient at the tap with small diameter line

Also with kegs at an ambient temp you will find you will need to tweak pressures a bit with every significant change in temp.. i always vent me kegs prior to serving to remove excess pressure that has escaped from the beer, in warmer weather you can loose condition in a keg over a period of time , if so dont worry just recab it back up..

one day soon it will all slot into place

[Jambo]

Before I make a mess taking the python apart, can anyone please tell me how the 3/16 line typically terminates in the tap, is there usually a JG fitting right on the tap itself? I didn't purchase a 3/16-3/16 joiner fitting so hoping I can run a completely new line right up to the tap rather than extend the existing one!

It's a Stella tap with adjustable flow, currently wound all the way open btw...

Cheers

Jamie

[barneey]

Most of the taps I`ve used have normally got a 3/16 or slightly larger diameter (5/16) but NOT 3/8`s to connect you will need a 3/16 to 3/8 JG fitting.

The stella tap I parted with last week had a 3/16 conncetion on it.

[Jambo]

Woohooo pouring perfect pints now!!!

So the Stella tap does indeed have a 3/16" push fitting inside it, two screws to open the tap itself up and the fitting is basically on the back of the tap.

Ripped out the old 1m or so of 3/16" tubing and put in about 5m of 3/16" tubing. This has slowed things down nicely. I also got rid of the small tubing coming out of the Corny keg.

Keg is now happily at around 17 psi pouring good beers!! Woohooooo!

[Jambo]

In case anyone is looking for a setup that works:

Keg at 17 psi at ambient (garage) temperature.

Corny>Standard out disconnect with 3/8 JG push fitting>5 ft of 3/8" Tubing>Corny cooler>~2ft of 3/8 tubing>15 ft of 3/16 tubing>Tap>Glass.

[Fil]

sweet.. all u need now is a segment timer to turn the chiller on 30 mins or so before you arrive home in the evening for a nice cool pint with ur feet up

[Jambo]

Fil, you sir are a genius! I have a timer here and I thought I had no use for it, that will be installed when I refill my glass!