Advice on DIY boilers

[Shoggy]

I've been brewing for a while in 3 gallon batch from my kitchen hob however the Mrs doesn't like the smell and doesn't like the condensation so I've been looking for alternative solutions. I've seen the tutorials on the home-made boilers using 2 cheap ADSA/Tescos/Ect kettle elements but i had a few questions and other problems I was wonder if anyone could answer for me before i get started making one.

The first is that some people have talked about leaving a kettle element running for 1-2 hours can damaged the plugs. Is this a high risk and could it cause damage to my house electrical circuits? The Mrs would probably be even less happy with this.

The other question is if the first one is not so much an issue does anyone know what extension cables would be suitable for powering this boiler from the house, it would need to travel about 15 meters outside (so 20 with slack) and be able to safely hold the necessary current.

If anyone has any other advice I'd be grateful, I'm keen to use this as a way of moving from 3 gallon BIAB to a mash tun and boiler 5 gallon set up.

[sbond10]

28 quid 7.5 kw propane burner and a 50 litre stainless pot and biab ?

[Matt in Birdham]

I can't speak highly enough of induction. I use a 3kw buffalo on the end of a 15m 15A extension cable and have no issues so far (8 brews with this rig). Of course, you do need an induction compatible pot. Personally I think its a bit safer, and less tinkering required - plus you could use it for other things if required. You can quite often find the buffalo for £50 odd on fleabay, reconditioned (mine was £100 new).

[Shoggy]

I don't mind the tinkering so much and the price of large pots is a problem for me at the moment. The one I use for the 3 gallon brews set be back £30 and it's not a great pot, I keep expecting to to just fall apart it feels so thin.

[bobsbeer]

If you plan to run your boiler on electric then the amount of power you have is the issue. The normal 3 pin plug is rated at 13 amps and is fused to that level. The reason they get hot is that while they are rated at 13 amps, they are not usually used with that load for up to 2 hours or so none stop. Much will depend on the load you are planning to use. A 2.75kw kettle element will use nearly 12 amps, so fairly close to the limit. So you would be better with 2.5kw elements. Remember Watts (2500) divided by Volts (240) = Amps (10.42). Which is well within the limit. Here comes the tricky bit. You will want probably 2 elements to get a good rolling boil going, so you need 2 sources of power. Depending on your house wiring you will have 1 ring main downstairs and one upstairs. The ideal would be to run an extension from each ring main. If you have a garage with power, it is likely that will be on a separate circuit, so you could run one element from the garage power and another from the downstairs ring main. You could depending on what else is on the downstairs ring run 2 extensions from 2 separate sockets. You need to check what power you have available and from where. The absolute no no is to run two extensions from one double socket. You will not blow the fuses on the plugs, but the socket will get very hot and may get hot enough to melt the plastic insulation on the internal wires and cause a short. Then your OH will be mighty pissed off.

[Shoggy]

[quote="bobsbeer"]If you plan to run your boiler on electric then the amount of power you have is the issue. The normal 3 pin plug is rated at 13 amps and is fused to that level. The reason they get hot is that while they are rated at 13 amps, they are not usually used with that load for up to 2 hours or so none stop. Much will depend on the load you are planning to use. A 2.75kw kettle element will use nearly 12 amps, so fairly close to the limit. So you would be better with 2.5kw elements. Remember Watts (2500) divided by Volts (240) = Amps (10.42). Which is well within the limit. Here comes the tricky bit. You will want probably 2 elements to get a good rolling boil going, so you need 2 sources of power. Depending on your house wiring you will have 1 ring main downstairs and one upstairs. The ideal would be to run an extension from each ring main. If you have a garage with power, it is likely that will be on a separate circuit, so you could run one element from the garage power and another from the downstairs ring main. You could depending on what else is on the downstairs ring run 2 extensions from 2 separate sockets. You need to check what power you have available and from where. The absolute no no is to run two extensions from one double socket. You will not blow the fuses on the plugs, but the socket will get very hot and may get hot enough to melt the plastic insulation on the internal wires and cause a short. Then your OH will be mighty pissed off.[/quote]

This is what I feared, I don't have a garage with electricity (my shed is my garage and it's just 3 walls, a door and a roof) and I wouldn't be able to get power form the upstairs circuit. I'm guessing this would rule me out of a two kettle element DIY set up.

The gas solution mentioned earlier, I'd though about this but the prices seem to add up pretty quickly, burner, gas tank, pot I could put a tap in. Would you or anyone know a place these could be picked up reasonably? Sadly I'm not allowed to brew until again until I set up a new solution.

[BenB]

Don't panic. I brew in my shed. I've had a 25M 13A extension cable going down there from the downstairs ring circuit. It's been there for the last three years without a problem (the reel bit lives inside the shed all the time). I use 2*1500W in my boiler and 1*2.4kw in my HLT. I can't have them both on at the same time obviously. But 3000W appears not to be a problem at all. The sockets don't seem to be the problem. Some plugs run hot when running 13A but it does seem to just be an issue with cheap plugs. I run a 4 way extension cable off the extension reel socket bit- the first plug that was on the 4 way extension used to get quite hot so I just replaced it- I suspect to be honest it was just a bad termination on the live post and unscrewing/screwing might have worked just fine.

[bobsbeer]

You can still use the downstairs ring to get power from. You can use two different sockets. I used to brew in my kitchen with 2 x 2.5kw elements in the boiler and 1 x 2.5 in the HLT. I plugged one into the cooker socket and the other into another socket in the kitchen. The cooker socket is not on the ring main so you can use that with no problem. Once you are boiling you won't be using the HLT, so no need worry about having all working at the same time.

[vacant]

I wouldn't be able to get power form the upstairs circuit.

If you have a separate circuit for an electric cooker, there is often a socket built into the cooker switch. I run one extension lead from that.

[alexlark]

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73558&start=30#p769763

Done 2 brews with mine since converting from gas. Boils 30L no sweat.

I now brew outside with an extension lead.

[Fil]

Use a flex rated above your needs and DONT leave any extension lead coiled up, also use plugs rated @13a many low power items ie lamps come with lower rated plugs so be careful if recycling older plugs and leads for the job.

Also consider disaster scenario's you wont intend to spill a kettle full of beer but just in case suspend the electrical connections above the liquid level and out of the way of all possible spills/splashes.

I have been brewing via extension leads for some time now and have now got a brewshed 'temporarily' fed by 2 x 16a extension leads fed by thier own 16A Sockets off two rings from the house/garage providing me with the capacity for 5.5kw of elements and a little overhead to power lights/radio/pumps/controllers too

patio brewing via extension leads is do-able safely and your asking the right questions..

for a budget brewkettle ebay was selling 45-50l ex mango chutney barrels for £11 delivered.

[VANDEEN]

Part 1, the kettle. I couldn't help it

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73748

Part 2 kettle tap & hop stopper, holes? Slits? Size, Qty?

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73889

Part 3, the wort chiller, & some questions

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=73919

On with Part 4 now, the Thermowell & PID heat controler box, to be followed with part 5 when "VANDEEN'S BREWMISER" will be revealed

HTH

[themadhippy]

for a 20m extension lead pulling around the 13A id use 2.5mm cable,preferable HO5,and use 16a ceeform connectors on the brewery end and a decent(MK) plug at the house end

[Kev888]

The first is that some people have talked about leaving a kettle element running for 1-2 hours can damaged the plugs. Is this a high risk and could it cause damage to my house electrical circuits? The Mrs would probably be even less happy with this.

It may be a risk with cheap sockets and plugs due to the durations involved; it shouldn't be, but some seem to have a pathetic lifespan if used near to their alleged full rating. The better quality sockets though are (IMO) quite acceptable for a domestic/home brewer - especially for 10Amps/2.4kw elements or below. Personally, I ran 13kw elements off MK branded 13A sockets for quite a few years, which is still within spec, and they got 'mildly' warm (probably due to the fuse) but no more. Many people on here do this with 10A kettle elements with no issue, and there are many 10a - 13A wash-boilers, heaters and other appliances about so its not in any way ridiculous.

However, given the durations involved it is certainly heavy use by domestic standards and things do wear out quicker, hence it should not be treated 'too' lightly. So check regularly that the plugs/sockets aren't getting too warm; I had a dodgy/dirty plug that caused a poor contact and melted even an MK socket's internals because I wasn't checking it often enough to notice things were past their best. Additionally, treat any double socket as 'a' 13A outlet, i.e. in total, not as two 13A outlets - if you run more than one element simultaneously, plug them into completely different sockets.

The suitability of the house circuits themselves depends on their rating (assuming they are up to spec, if you know them to be old and unchecked perhaps best not to bank on it). Most socket rings are about 30Amps but it can differ, looking at the consumer unit/fusebox may tell you what the circuits are rated at. (Also be aware than historically some sockets -like for a shed or conservatory- may be on a 13amp spur off the main circuits). And you also need to consider what else is running on the same circuit that you intend to use, so that you can work out what share of the maximum rating is free. Particularly pay attention to heavy-duty appliances running on the same circuit, like dryers, heaters, toasters/kettles etc. - the circuits can stand a little short term overload but ideally don't bank on it unless you're sure. Thats one good reason for using the cooker socket if you have one - whilst the cooker isn't on, the whole circuit is completely free. It can also be helpful if you run more than one element at once to plug one into the cooker socket and one into a ring main, to spread the load between circuits.

The other question is if the first one is not so much an issue does anyone know what extension cables would be suitable for powering this boiler from the house, it would need to travel about 15 meters outside (so 20 with slack) and be able to safely hold the necessary current.

Whatever else you do make sure the extension is rated for the full 13 amps. Some (IMO less than trustworthy brands) appear to be so, but in actual fact are describing that they have '13amp type' plugs/sockets, whilst the overall rating of the lead may be less, like 10amps or 6Amps. The flex should have at least 1.5 square mm conductors; If you can find any at 2.5 square mm that would be superb, but its rare for extensions with domestic plugs/sockets. Secondly, don't use it at high power whilst coiled up, it should be unwound and reasonably spread out so as to dissipate heat and avoid creating magnetic coil effects. Finally, don't underestimate other safety hazards like tripping over it or rain/spillages especially on the connectors. There are grades of flex suitable for external/damp use and also splash proof sockets, but again these are rare in your average DIY warehouse etc

If anyone has any other advice I'd be grateful, I'm keen to use this as a way of moving from 3 gallon BIAB to a mash tun and boiler 5 gallon set up.

FWIW I ran a 100L 3-vessel system on 13Amps, initially off a domestic extension lead -following the principles I mentioned. Theres no doubt that competently installed permanent wiring to the brew-shed/garage is a better, safer alternative if its to be a regular thing, but circumstances may not allow that and rules have changed on what permanent wiring the average DIYer can do outside. Thankfully, you can, with planning and a little patience in heating times, get away with running only one element at a time even with a three-vessel system. Most homebrewers using two big elements at once do so just to speed up heating times, and switch back to one element once the boiler is at temperature. Don't overlook the value of insulating vessels either; a bit of camping/sleeping mat wrapped around the boiler can save you needing a more powerful element and/or noticeably shorten time taken to reach the boil. And whilst there are objections to boiling with the lid on, it doesn't mean you can't have it at least partially (or in my case mostly) covering the boiler to keep some heat in.

Cheers
Kev

[Cully]

I am yet to brew as I am still putting the finishing touches to my kit. I had the same SWMBO problem and so I bought a 2mx2m gazebo 50 quid with sides. I plan to run 1 extension from the upstairs ring and 1 from downstairs. My setup is: a Buffalo to boil the water ( We have a combi boiler so I can use the hot water directly from the tap in to the Buffalo which will save time and leccy). Xtreme coolbox mashtun and I bought a 60 ltr plastic boiler with 2 elements from Copper kettle homebrew. Got some cheap racking and a workmate so all transfer of liquid will be gravity fed. Link to gazebo below.

http://www.garden-camping.com/product/A ... %20Bag/200