Plate chiller upgrade

[Cheesey]

Hi all,

I wonder if I can ask some questions. I've read a bit on here about plate chillers, but I have a couple of queries. I am looking at one on Mr Lards (125Kw as I do 50L brews )

I gravity feed from the HLT/copper into my FV below. Currently I have an IC coil and hop strainer in the bottom of the copper. But because I stir the copper to help chill /whirlpool, I get a lot of trub under the strainer. So once cooled I drop via a tube into a stainer with a fine SS gauze to catch the trub, then into the FV, this also helps aerate the wort.

I plan to put in-line the PC, so I could still sit there with my strainer catching the trub as it exits, or put an inline filter I've seen in Mr Lards.

So

1. Will there be any issue running initially potentially large amount of fine trub through the PC?.
2. Has any one used one of the 1 micron in line filters, and will it work with a gravity system, prior to the PC ?
3. I have read you clean the PC in the oven, any one with a more detailed overview, do you flush, then clean, soak and what temp the oven , how long for.

I tend to use VWP to clean/ sanitise , then spray with Starsan. Any problems with these product and a PC.

Many thanks

C

[orlando]

There has always been a lively debate along the lines of PC vs IC. I have the PC you are contemplating and it's quite a big beast. PC's are perfect if you have the right cleaning regime, potentially real trouble though. Apart from sanitation, which I will come back to, you have the issue of gravity, you may find this is not enough to drive the wort through the plate. I have always pumped so not tried it, I occasionally get the odd hop leaf flushed out of the PC when cleaning but for the most part if you have a decent filter in the boiler there aren't any major issues. Pumping through the chiller back into the boiler gives you a number of advantages. First is being able to whirlpool late hop additions, second is it really helps to filter out trub and third you can lower your temperature to pitching before running off to the boiler at any time of the year. This technique results in crystal clear wort into the fermentor, if this really matters, my money is on it marginally does. Filters aren't something I would contemplate, throws up more problems than they are worth, particularly in slowing things down, even stopping the wort flowing.

The really vexatious matter is cleaning, there is no doubt in my mind that you have to be scrupulous with this. My regime is long and boring but is at least done during the clean up period afterwards and it goes like this. I have 15 litres of PBW in my HLT once the sparge is finished, this is used to flush all the hoses used in the sparge along with the pump used for this. I empty the PC flush with hot water then hook this back up to the second pump (wort cool and transfer) and the HLT, the HLT holds the water at 65c and is recirculated through the PC whilst I clean up the boiler. Once I've done that I then flush backwards and forwards with hot water again, it is left to drain and is then put upside down into my pressure cooker and given 20 minutes at 15 psi. This is then kept in the cooker until next use when it is plunged into Starsan prior to use. I used to bake my old one in the oven as you mentioned but was always concerned that I might just be baking on the wort I hadn't properly flushed. Compared to an IC the regime is a bit of a palaver but I think the advantages out weigh that.

[john luc]

What sort of filter control do you use when you are recirculating the hot wort back to the boil kettle.

[Dads_Ale]

The fittings for mine arrived during the week so, hopefully, will be giving it a dry run with water tomorrow. It is a 50 plate unit (I think) from Germany. Once the dry run is complete I will use with a brew.
Initial concerns are:
- will it work with gravity feed (I have a pump ready if not)
- Will I use less water? this is the hope.

I will report back if I get round to trialling tomorrow...

[orlando]

Initial concerns are:
- will it work with gravity feed (I have a pump ready if not)
- Will I use less water? this is the hope.

It will work with gravity feed but once the bulk of the brew goes through inevitably it will slow down and then you might start over chilling, particularly at this time of year, practice with the pump as well. When you say less water compared to what, did you have a smaller plate chiller before or do you mean compared to an IC? It will obviously depend on ground water temp but like for like I think PC's are usually more efficient than IC's unless you move an IC around in the wort but that can disturb the trub formation.

[Cheesey]

Thanks Orlando for the detail I was after, lots more to mull over.

One quick question: what pump do you use for the PC?.

I've always been wary about using a pump post boil , again due to hygiene .

[orlando]

Thanks Orlando for the detail I was after, lots more to mull over.

One quick question: what pump do you use for the PC?.

I've always been wary about using a pump post boil , again due to hygiene .

A pair of these. The pump is just another piece of equipment to sanitise, no different to the plate chiller, other than it is easier to keep clean. Most people will put their IC in the boil to sanitise it, you can recirculate wort through these pumps during the boil if you wish, I don't think it is necessary if you have taken the usual precautions.

[Dads_Ale]

Initial concerns are:
- will it work with gravity feed (I have a pump ready if not)
- Will I use less water? this is the hope.

It will work with gravity feed but once the bulk of the brew goes through inevitably it will slow down and then you might start over chilling, particularly at this time of year, practice with the pump as well. When you say less water compared to what, did you have a smaller plate chiller before or do you mean compared to an IC? It will obviously depend on ground water temp but like for like I think PC's are usually more efficient than IC's unless you move an IC around in the wort but that can disturb the trub formation.

The less water bit was against my home made CFC. I made it in 1990 and it doesn't really have enough coils so the hose is at full bore. I thought I'd try the plate chiller before making another coil CFC.
Trying to reduce water consumption as I am sure one day a water meter will appear.

[Cheesey]

Thanks again,

nice kit, I can see this upgrade is going to be pricey!.
I'm guessing you put the pump after the PC to pull the wort through?.

Cheers

C

[Jocky]

I had the 125kw plate chiller, and it was great at chilling, I used it on gravity without problems as long as the hops were separated out, which was fine when just using leaf hops and a large filter made of #30/300 micron mesh, but clogged the instant any pellet hops were used, so with pellets you really have to whirlpool and rest to let it all settle out.

Anyway, I sold the plate chiller because I felt the cleaning regime (similar to orlandos) was a faff for my short brew lengths (20l) compared to a cheap IC and whirl pooling.

I'm not going to assume it's better for you, but if you've not tried moving your wort while immersion chilling yet, I'd give that a go first before buying the plate chiller.

[Dads_Ale]

Thanks again,

nice kit, I can see this upgrade is going to be pricey!.
I'm guessing you put the pump after the PC to pull the wort through?.

Cheers

C

I believe a lot of pumps won't run dry (mine won't) so need to push the wort through the chiller.

[orlando]

I'm guessing you put the pump after the PC to pull the wort through?.

Nope, the pump is attached to the boiler. Don't know if it makes any difference to be honest. Anyone?

[Cheesey]

I had the 125kw plate chiller, and it was great at chilling, I used it on gravity without problems as long as the hops were separated out, which was fine when just using leaf hops and a large filter made of #30/300 micron mesh, but clogged the instant any pellet hops were used, so with pellets you really have to whirlpool and rest to let it all settle out.

Anyway, I sold the plate chiller because I felt the cleaning regime (similar to orlandos) was a faff for my short brew lengths (20l) compared to a cheap IC and whirl pooling.

I'm not going to assume it's better for you, but if you've not tried moving your wort while immersion chilling yet, I'd give that a go first before buying the plate chiller.

Hi Jockie,

At the moment moving the wort around involves me stood on top of a set of steps (copper/HLT is at the top of the gravity system above the FV ) with a brew spoon, for 35- 40 minutes. It's right at the end of the day so I'm usually knackered by then any way. I guess I could put a recirc. whirlpool pump in the system. Hadn't thought of that!. But I also want to reduce the cooling time down.

[Jocky]

Eek... Yeah I don't like the idea of hot liquids and being up ladders either.

If you have a pump available, recirculating and creating a whirlpool loop will massively cut your chilling time with an IC compared to doing nothing.

Which is better is up to you.

[Fil]

If you can remove the hop debris from the kettle, Using hop socks or a hop spider,
I use a spider, then the material in the kettle should just be the break matter formed with the aid of your kettle finnings.. if the pot is left to rest for 20-30mins most of this will drop out as a sediment. Then depending on your drain arrangement, when you first crack the drain valve wide open most the sediment that has settled around the drain should get sucked up, so if you simply open the valve and catch the first 1/4 - 1/2 pint or so, it should contain most of the matter that concerns you.