Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Hogarth » Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:08 am

Thanks for the regulator write-up, Matt. Mine's in the post.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 2:24 pm

All done! Went pretty well for a first attempt:

Image

I went the full monty and filled the keg to the brim with Iostar solution, then pumped out to another keg. This pump across took 6 minutes. I then connected to the FV and started that transfer, and in total it tool 10:33 timed on my phone. So not too bad, and the cup of excess that came through the gas out tasted fantastic (this is another 3 Floyds Hop Zombie clone with ~250g of all Citra). Carbing now, can't wait to get into it but I have a few more cups of flat beer to sample first :)

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Not sure how this took an hour for you? What sort of pressure were you running? I don't know exactly where I was, but it would have been around 1-2psi (max).

All in all, very happy with the system from cold crash through keg and it shouldn't be too onerous of an addition to my process (and worth it, I hope).

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by jaroporter » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:24 pm

looking good Matt. what have you got connected to the gas disconnect?
you need a carbcap for that flat overspill. best. kegging. addition. ever. :lol:
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:28 pm

jaroporter wrote:looking good Matt. what have you got connected to the gas disconnect?
you need a carbcap for that flat overspill. best. kegging. addition. ever. :lol:
NOthing - just a tube on the end.

Don't worry - got one :) Just carbed up 1L of this in a drinks bottle, will be sampling tonight !

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by jaroporter » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:31 pm

ha sweet. it's probably made more positive impact on racking to keg than most other things i've done :)

without meaning to be pessimistic, if the disco is open to the air, doesn't that kinda defeat the point of the closed transfer?
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:46 pm

jaroporter wrote:ha sweet. it's probably made more positive impact on racking to keg than most other things i've done :)

without meaning to be pessimistic, if the disco is open to the air, doesn't that kinda defeat the point of the closed transfer?
I think it should be OK - the keg was under slight pressure when I attached the gas connect, so CO2 was coming out and obviously this carried on whilst the keg was filling. Hopefully little (if any) air went the other way.. Next time I might set it up to bubble through starsan, but I left the tube too short this time (I did hold it in a jar of starsan a few times during transfer, to assess the bubbling - which was constant).

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by orlando » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:19 pm

Once you transferred the sanitiser was the keg at less pressure than the fermentor, I assume it is to get the beer to flow? Do you have to release the prv on the keg at all to burp" anything stopping the flow?
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:31 pm

orlando wrote:Once you transferred the sanitiser was the keg at less pressure than the fermentor, I assume it is to get the beer to flow? Do you have to release the prv on the keg at all to burp" anything stopping the flow?
What I did was push the sanitiser out completely through the out post and connection to FV (extra bit of sanitising for that), then took off the out disconnect, held the keg upside down to get any dregs through the PRV (with gas in still connected). Then I took the gas off, connected the FV/keg hose which resulted in an outrush of CO2 and (hopefully) expulsion of any O2 from that line. At this point keg had zero pressure and I connected the hose to FV and opened the tap - some beer immediately flowed in, and after a while I attached the gas disconnect to let CO2 out. I was pondering whether to attached the FV/Keg hose to the FV first, then run some beer to the end to flush the air (hold disconnect pin in with finger). I'm not sure which is the better way to do it. I'm pretty sure I got a lot less air exposure than my usual method though (especially having cold crashed under CO2).

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:48 pm

Matt in Birdham wrote:All done! Went pretty well for a first attempt

Not sure how this took an hour for you? What sort of pressure were you running? I don't know exactly where I was, but it would have been around 1-2psi (max).

All in all, very happy with the system from cold crash through keg and it shouldn't be too onerous of an addition to my process (and worth it, I hope).
That's encouraging! I was using 1.5-1.75psi. I even pumped it up to 2.5 at one point to try and clear the air and get the transfer going again. Not sure what happened. Hopefully it will be quicker next time.

Cheers!
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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Fri Jan 13, 2017 4:53 pm

donchiquon wrote: That's encouraging! I was using 1.5-1.75psi. I even pumped it up to 2.5 at one point to try and clear the air and get the transfer going again. Not sure what happened. Hopefully it will be quicker next time.

Cheers!
Maybe you got a partial blockage or something? An hour does seem extraordinarily slow !

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by orlando » Sat Jan 14, 2017 1:31 pm

Had a crack at this with just water. Went very smoothly with a transfer time of approx 10 minutes too. I guess the speed of transfer is limited by the small bore of the dip tube rather than anything else. I have a slight problem with my gas post on the conical, there is a very slight leak. But this notwithstanding had no effect on the transfer, as it appears you do not need much positive pressure at all. I didn't notice any gas/air escaping from the gas in port on the cornie at all. As long as I can clear my racking port of settled yeast and can fine in the fermentor then this method of transfer has a lot going for it.


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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:23 pm

Just to note that I did my second transfer under pressure this afternoon, which also went well. Again, about 10 minutes (OK, 12 this time), and the whole process to me doesn't seem *that* much more of a pain than the standard transfer. I still feel a little squiffy about the waste of water when filling the keg with CO2 (20 litres, which I couldn't find a use for today), so I'm going to skip the bath today :)

Now I'm just waiting on a Brewbuilder order that will give me a neater connection FV -> keg (a C&G type D, which is a 1/2 female and I can attach my 6mm barb directly to that).

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Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:09 pm

I think we must have the same brew calendar!

I did my second transfer as well today. No hitched or air locks. 11 minutes to transfer. A relief after the last episode.

How is everyone connecting from the black disco to the 1/2" female thread on the racking valve of the FV?

I'm currently using some PU tubing which is a push fit onto the disco and then onto a 12mm barb on the FV. It works but isn't ideal.

EDIT - just spotted Orlandos 3/8 into silicone - I'm using that on the gas side - not sure why I didn't think of it before!

Matt- is the water filled keg a more certain method than just purging the keg a few times?
Ian

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by Matt in Birdham » Thu Jan 26, 2017 9:17 pm

Have a read of this presentation from last years Hombrew Con in the US. There is an interesting table in there, which shows that you would need to charge and purge 15 times at 30psi to effectively eliminate O2 from a keg. Pushing out a filled keg will give you the same results at 1 bar, so you will use much less gas and it is far quicker. There's loads of other interesting stuff in that pdf, btw.

For FV -> keg I current have a C&G fitting to 1/2 barb, to a pair of joined 1/2 inch/1/4 barbs then gas line to the disco. I have (on order - seems to be taking a while!) a C&G type D, so I will be able to screw my 1/4 male barb fitting straight into that then gas line from that to keg, which will be a bit neater. The 3/8 gas line is a bit of a squeeze to get on, but a bit of hot water and force and it's not going anywhere.

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Re: Sodastream CO2 setup for pressurised crash chilling

Post by donchiquon » Fri Jan 27, 2017 9:21 am

Matt in Birdham wrote:Have a read of this presentation from last years Hombrew Con in the US. There is an interesting table in there, which shows that you would need to charge and purge 15 times at 30psi to effectively eliminate O2 from a keg. Pushing out a filled keg will give you the same results at 1 bar, so you will use much less gas and it is far quicker. There's loads of other interesting stuff in that pdf, btw.
Thanks Matt - all really useful. Ok, sold on the water purge. I hadn't realised that PRV purging was so ineffective. If we're already taking the trouble to pressure transfer, may as well make sure! I'm off to repurge all the kegs in my kegerator 20 times :lol:

What concentration of starsan do you use for the purge water? I don't fancy using 30ml (at the recommended sanitising concentration) each time! Can you use a weaker concentration?
Matt in Birdham wrote:For FV -> keg I current have a C&G fitting to 1/2 barb, to a pair of joined 1/2 inch/1/4 barbs then gas line to the disco. I have (on order - seems to be taking a while!) a C&G type D, so I will be able to screw my 1/4 male barb fitting straight into that then gas line from that to keg, which will be a bit neater. The 3/8 gas line is a bit of a squeeze to get on, but a bit of hot water and force and it's not going anywhere.
Sounds neat - I was looking for some hose joiners yesterday but didn't have any luck. Do you have a link to your joiner? Thanks

I also liked the look of the corny post connectors that the AHA guy had rigged up to carboys in his presentation. They would make gas connections easier. I have spare corny posts, but wondering what he has screwed them onto? Any idea what the male thread fitting would be?
Last edited by donchiquon on Fri Jan 27, 2017 2:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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